Should I let him return to uni?

[mugglewump]

I am so confused about whether I should agree to my son returning to halls, given the current guidance. His uni has said that accommodation fees will be proportionate to time spent in residence, but rather than staying home and saving the money, he is desperate to be back with his new uni friends. He says he can work better there and lockdown in halls will be more fun because he will be with friends. He is also pretty much nocturnal now and his sister is getting up for online lessons at 7:45 each morning and waking him up (adjacent rooms and bathroom). Am I being mean asking him to stay here? Will we be breaking the rules if he goes back? (Still in same area, so does not constitute travel as such). He says most of his friends are returning to halls this weekend.

Is she going to wait for a negative test before she goes shopping?

@singsingbluesilver it is possible for young people to be responsible you know. DD was the only one of her four flatmates not to test positive in late November and they all sat it out together. (still don't know if DD was infected but that's by the by). Good as gold. London zone 3 grotty flat. Friends delivered bags of tesco shopping to the door because they couldn't get deliveries. Really organised and really responsibleWhy such a dim view of all young people?

Why assume I have a dim view of young people? I don't, I don;t ANYONE to be travelling without good reason - be they age 18 or 88. Stay at home is the message so stay at home you should.

Where I live if all of the students return it will massively increase the number of people in the area - more in the supermarket, more in the queue for the chemist. Students come here from all over the Uk -many live in areas where the cases are well over 1000 per 100000, Our current cases are below 100. I really, really wan it ti stay that way.

I could not be with my family over Christmas. I cannot get into my car and drive to start exercise. We have had these restrictions now since before Christmas - and for good reason. Why on earth would it be sensible to have thousands of people come into the area now?

Once again. Nit student bashing. I don't hate young people. I just want everyone, regardles of their age, to act in a way that will help to keep everyone as safe as we possibly can be in these times.

As a parent I would also be worried about the potential of my child ending up with covid, in a grotty flat hundreds of miles from home. But as I say people will do what they want so crack on.

DD is going back today. She hasn’t left the house since she’s been home, except for the odd walk. She’s driving back in her own car, no public transport, and is in a 2nd year house share with two others who have done the same. They will isolate for 10 days there. I don’t feel there is a big risk.

As for those saying ‘do they hate their families’ ... do you not remember being 19? We’ve all had a lovely time together but she was enjoying her independence and loves living with friends. I get it! I wouldn’t have wanted to be locked up with my parents at that age.

If she was a first year in halls with lots of people we would have all made a diff decision as obv far more risk involved.

@singsingbluesilver

Is she going to wait for a negative test before she goes shopping?

Yes she has food in and she is taking milk bread and cheese from here

The numbers of positive tests for students coming home at Christmas were apparently very low
Not that it got much publicity unlike the furore when they went away to Uni in September

DD has not seen any of her Uni friends since before Easter. It is as if her life is in suspended animation. The silver lining is that she has the quiet, space, wifi and support she needs at home so is doing really well academically, completing project work ahead of time and saving money.

It is far from ideal, and certainly not what I would have wanted for her, or us. However the people she feels most sorry for are recent graduates, stuck in childhood bedrooms with no money whilst writing countless job applications that don't get anywhere. That, along with the growing crisis in NHS hospitals, is why we need to get the R rate down. Guidelines are guidelines because there will always be exceptions. But the more people who follow them, the better for everyone.

During the first lockdown a Malaysian friend posted a story of a girl in Borneo who created a platform on one of the tallest trees in the area (and trees in the Borneo forest are tall) as it was the only place she could get reliable signal, in order to sit her exams. If our broadband fails, I guess DD can find a tree in the park.

One thing to note is that National Express will not be running after this weekend.

most students had to get two negative tests before travelling home for christmas. Mine was driven home by me so no contact with anyone else, then was at home for christmas except for occasional exercise. Not no risk, but should be low risk

@user1487194234

The numbers of positive tests for students coming home at Christmas were apparently very low Not that it got much publicity unlike the furore when they went away to Uni in September

But the rates are far higher in many parts of the UK than they were in September. Bo one - no one - who does not NEED to be traveling should be moving out of their local area now.

Being bored and missing your friends is not a valid reason. I miss my family so much it is breaking my heart but I am not going to travel to them. If everyone could learn to be less selfish then just maybe we can get through this a bit more quickly and with fewer casualties.

Or, just go ahead - look for loopholes - be with your mates.

My ds is staying home for now since coming back at Christmas. His course was online anyway and everything at uni is restricted or cancelled regarding the sport he enjoys doing there. I don’t think being confined to his small room there does much for his mental health either.

Not sure where this leaves things regarding his accommodation, I suppose he might get to go back but it seems to have been a waste of money beginning this year. He’s not really sure even how he’s doing on his course either.

Hi @mugglewump! I sympathise with you.

Student accommodation spreads infections like Covid. We know that. And there is the natural youthful inclination to socialise and party! And this risk is noticeably greater among undergraduates as compared with post-graduate students; my post-grad daughter has commented as much. ... What is your son's subject? Can he do most of his work from home?

My daughter is doing an Arts-Humanities, Dissertation and Thesis based MPhil at Cambridge. She is now stuck as she needs around 50 specialist books only available in hard copy and only in certain libraries. We are trying to establish whether they will be available even in Cambridge. We may offer to pay the postage - both ways - but need to know about insurance. ... This was a problem last year on the same course even though that lockdown was after around 2 full terms. The faculty muddles through, ignoring student complaints. I do not see how the course can now proceed without library access, especially as only one term's work has been possible so far. I suspect the faculty know they have a problem but do not want to 'abandon' or 'suspend' the course until further notice.

She has an international student friend who was in Cambridge during the first lockdown. This friend says it was quite bad as hardly anyone was around and the place was a ghost town. Things were very different during the second lockdown. This may persuade my daughter to - reluctantly - stay at home ... and save on rent. And she recognises that libraries may shut completely if restrictions tighten.

I am tending towards advising her to stay at home and try to get books sent to her. It will be the first time since school that I have said 'No!' to anything.

What a pickle, eh?

Dd is going back.

She has just had a negative test and I’ll take her in my car.

We are waiting news on whether or not she will get a halls refund and if she does she will come back here. But she needs to go to get the rest of her stuff regardless. She didn’t bring it all home at Christmas.

@JBX2013

Hi *@mugglewump*! I sympathise with you.

Student accommodation spreads infections like Covid. We know that. And there is the natural youthful inclination to socialise and party! And this risk is noticeably greater among undergraduates as compared with post-graduate students; my post-grad daughter has commented as much. ... What is your son's subject? Can he do most of his work from home?

My daughter is doing an Arts-Humanities, Dissertation and Thesis based MPhil at Cambridge. She is now stuck as she needs around 50 specialist books only available in hard copy and only in certain libraries. We are trying to establish whether they will be available even in Cambridge. We may offer to pay the postage - both ways - but need to know about insurance. ... This was a problem last year on the same course even though that lockdown was after around 2 full terms. The faculty muddles through, ignoring student complaints. I do not see how the course can now proceed without library access, especially as only one term's work has been possible so far. I suspect the faculty know they have a problem but do not want to 'abandon' or 'suspend' the course until further notice.

She has an international student friend who was in Cambridge during the first lockdown. This friend says it was quite bad as hardly anyone was around and the place was a ghost town. Things were very different during the second lockdown. This may persuade my daughter to - reluctantly - stay at home ... and save on rent. And she recognises that libraries may shut completely if restrictions tighten.

I am tending towards advising her to stay at home and try to get books sent to her. It will be the first time since school that I have said 'No!' to anything.

What a pickle, eh?

The library should be able to get books for her even via inter-library loan and get them posted.

I’ve had that done for books for myself without an issue, including books that are so rare that the uk only holds one copy of the hard copy.

But @Needmoresleep your DD was always going to be living at home anyway this year as she’s at a local uni She doesn’t have university accommodation to return to so in a very different position to those discussed here. So while it’s very sad she hasn’t seen her friends or can’t go to the campus, she’s fortunate to be in a better position than many who aren’t allowed to go back to where they should be living. Her life isn’t suspended in the same way.

However the people she feels most sorry for are recent graduates, stuck in childhood bedrooms with no money whilst writing countless job applications that don't get anywhere. That, along with the growing crisis in NHS hospitals, is why we need to get the R rate down

While I have a lot of sympathy for the graduates stuck in their bedrooms, I think there are surely several other arguably more important reasons why we need to get the R rate down?!

The rules and guidance have changed several times in the last month so it’s tricky, with some having gone back legitimately and others not having gone. But the rules at the moment are not to travel to university unless you meet one of the exceptions. For that reason, the OP’s DS shouldn’t go back although I agree it’s his choice.

So, he is going. It is his choice and I am glad I am not the only parent insisting their DC follow the guidance. What swung it for him is a friend in NZ, who has already completed her first year. She said that first year in halls is the most fun time of your life, ever. This cohort of students are missing out so much on such a key period in their lives with none of the usual first year activities happening. At least he can enjoy spending time with his new friends in halls and still have that experience, as all but those stuck abroad are returning this week. Uni provides two lateral flow tests as they move in. Many of the libraries are still open, which is where he prefers to study. Thanks for everyone's contributions, lots of important points made on both sides and ultimately, it is down to what seems most important to the DC.

I am not sure, when things are online, whether it is that important where the bedroom is located. Not being able to see friends at a local University is as tough as not being able to see friends at a University at the other end of the country.

I think the guidance is saying that whichever bedroom you are in at the moment, stay put.

I should also apologise. I did not mean to argue that recent graduates are one of the most important reasons for trying to reduce the R rate, though I would argue that they are a useful symptom of the impact the virus is having on the economy. I am afraid English was never my strongest subject and my drafting can be unclear.

What I meant to counter, though again you may feel I am wrong, is the idea that students should go back to University because that is where their friends are, by using the example of what has happened to those only a couple of years older.

But again, as you suggest, probably not useful.

ultimately, it is down to what seems most important to the DC.

This is spectacularly missing the point. The guidance is 100% clear that he should not go back.

If it wasn’t that important where the bedroom was located, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Obviously having your bedroom in the same place as your friends and fellow students is very different from having it in the same place as your parents It’s a huge reason why many students, including the OP’s DS, have gone or are wanting to go back. It’s a huge draw of university in general. Not to mention that it is solely their space for the first time in their lives, not their parents’.

And I agree with @MrsEricBana

Yes, but the guidelines are about travel.

What has become very clear through this whole thing is that different people have different perceptions as to the extent which rules apply to them.

The rules are clear. And eventually should help us get control of the virus spread. However the speed at which this will happen will depend in part on the level of compliance.

And that is the framework in which OPs DS needs to make his decision.

@singsingbluesilver but they are not “loopholes” - the guidance expressly states circumstances where students are permitted to return to their student accommodation.

And I’d reiterate e is a massive difference between going back to Halls versus going back to a private rented house off campus. A small group can isolate together on return with no additional risk posed by communal laundries etc and occupants of other flats in the same building.

I’m not sure what your point is here @Needmoresleep

as you’ll see from my previous posts that I agree the OP’s son shouldn’t be going back to university.

I just don’t agree with you that it doesn’t matter where the bedroom is located from a missing friends point of view. If you’re at university, you’re highly likely to be seeing your friends or fellow students more than if you’re living at home. Especially if things are online.

And I’d reiterate e is a massive difference between going back to Halls versus going back to a private rented house off campus. A small group can isolate together on return with no additional risk posed by communal laundries etc and occupants of other flats in the same building.

Completely agree with this.

Can we agree to differ? Not least the @'s suggest the point is more important than it actually is, given we are both on the tgread.

My best guess is that in the real, not MN, world being locked down with a small group of flatmates will often be quite difficult. The rules do not permit mixing between flats, and there is a fair chance several flatmates wont return.

Hence my suggestion that when online it often does not make that much difference.

The killers are not being able to mix with other students, play sport or go into University.

Remaining at home can have silver linings, like parents being able to prevent total isolation (and we won't be the only ones to be aware of someone for whom being alone through the first lockdown in a private rented flat was dangerously grim) and, assuming good wifi, a largish room, and home cooked meals, can be a positive academically.