Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

And of course those rankings may well be meaningless or wrong; I'm simply pointing out that they exist.

Thanks @mumsneedwine. Those links are really useful.

DS (applying for grad entry) has been stressing about getting enough experience and the online experience he's seen before has all been for school-aged dc.

Question for those with inside knowledge - how much weight is given to the UCAS reference? DS isn't sure if he should ask his former uni tutor from 2 years ago, current vaccine volunteering supervisor (he's never really spoken to her) or his current (totally unmedical) employer.

@Backseatmedmum we were told at open days during my daughter’s application process that the majority of unis will look over the reference as a last check before an offer is made, to check for any ‘red flags’ - as of course all schools will say their student is intelligent, dedicated and has the makings of a fantastic doctor.

DD has just completed the Aspiring Medics online work experience.

She is lucky that she has volunteering experience going back several years, but several of her peers were planning to start volunteering in a local care home after their GCSEs and haven't found anything to replace it.

It should be his university tutor Backseatmedmum.

Thanks @goodbyestranger. Yes, uni tutor seemed obvious even as I wrote the question, really. I think ds was panicking because he thought he needed 2 references but has now checked and it's only one so dilemma resolved.

DD had a week of work experience lined up in our local hospital last June where a friend is a Consultant. It was, obviously, cancelled.

Friend is a Geriatrician and one of the best doctors I know - she was brilliant when FIL had Covid. I'm wondering whether to ask whether DD could have a go this summer. She's had such a difficult year, shall I ask her or not? I'm thinking not and it may be that it's not even feasible anyway.

@sandybayley I'd ask. My DD is doing CP1 and on wards or in surgery every day now. NHS is getting a bit back to normal and she says consultants are so happy to teach them - one said she's missed the students. So worth a try.

@Backseatmedmum
I am sorry you appear to be unhappy with my contribution. I had hoped that with a DC who has experienced two medical schools, I was well placed to respond to sandybayleys query.

There are clearly divergent views. I wonder about some of the advice posted on medic threads, because it’s is so very different to the DDs experience. But I would hope that people can filter stuff for themselves. In and amongst, there are some knowledgeable people and some good advice. When DD was applying, with a poor UCAT and dyslexia, I received some great advice, some by PM, which may well have made a difference between DD getting a place or not.

There will always be those whose DC get four offers, and seem to be the perfect student on the perfect course. For others, it can be a long and stressful road. Which is why, despite divergent views, earlier experience can be useful.

@Needmoresleep exactly. There are different medical schools that suit different students. And different Unis look for different things to admit those students. Knowing this helps make an informed application, ensuring the biggest chance of gaining an interview.
Mine has no desire to ever work in London (at the moment). Probably because she has lived in and around it all her life. Others want to. It's just as well they all want different things or we'd not have doctors doing different things in different parts of the country. DD told me that Notts has the most advance breast clinic in the country at the moment, doing contrast mammograms as standard. I know Alder Hey does some specialist stuff no where else in the world can. The NHS is awesome. Pockets of excellence all over the place. Not just the golden triangle (which to me is a drug dealing part of Northern Thailand 🤷‍♀️).

@Needmoresleep - your advice is very much appreciated 😊 - as is everyone's. I'm a fairly discerning character and am reading it all and digesting....

@Needmoresleep - Oh no! There's nothing you said I disagreed with. I'm not sure why you took my post to be aimed at you.

In fact I was trying to point out to a couple of the regular bun-fighters that the thread was in danger of going pear-shaped if the old chestnuts were re-hashed. Everybody's contribution and experience is useful in particular your dd's broader experience Needmore

Mumsneedwine. Yes fit. Nottingham is clearly the perfect medical school for your daughter. From the various things you have posted, it would not have suited mine. Just as well, as they would not have taken her. I think yours got four early offers. Mine did not have an interview until March. Posters this year will have varying experiences, so some advice will be useful, some not.

I don’t get the point about London. But I assume it is different for those who don’t have much choice. DD really only had three options, and one was in London. For her priorities were getting the place and then choosing the course that suited her best. The London one rejected her anyway.

@Needmoresleep think you're taking this personally, when all I ever give is general advice. Bristol sounds like it's been great for your DD which is brilliant. But I do think my DD would have been happy wherever she went ! She'd be training to be a doctor and that's all she wants. She did get 4 offers mainly due to her strategic applying, which is why I know it works. Normally. This year has been rubbish.
Anyway off to open the wine. Happy Saturday

Backseat, thanks. I am regularly sniped at by a particular poster, so inadvertently cause bun fights. Indeed there was one only a few days ago which genuinely upset me, and I assumed your post was more of the same. My aim try to share experience that may be useful to others.

DD struggled all the way through her education, and it was only in year 11 that her natural science bent shone through her dyslexia. Timed tests like UCAT are a nightmare if you have slow processing speeds. Her UCAS application had to be extremely strategic. That said she is a natural scientist and I suspect that well as making as good a doctor as some of those who waltzed their way to four offers, she has the potential for innovative research.

They are all different, but Strangers point that those that are strongly academic should consider Oxbridge (and the couple of London ones she does not mention ) is a good one. DDs mixed approach will also work, and suits her better. But for those who might eventually want to work in a research oriented role, it is absolutely worth having a punt at Golden Triangle Universities

I only don't mention Imperial and UCL because I have no experience of either Needmoresleep. DS would have been very happy indeed to have gone to either (he decided only to apply to Imperial rather than apply to both and therefore three BMATs, in case he had a really BMAT day). Both are very clearly up there with the best but of course the London experience for undergrad isn't for everyone. I tend to think I should stick to commenting on what I know :)

Please be aware that a poster on here thinks it's appropriate to send vile personal messages. I have reported to MN. But I have enough going on in my life not to be abused on a Saturday night so if anyone else wants any help please PM me, I've had some lovely messages and hope I've helped a little. I'm out of here.

DS has an unconditional offer. He also has no work experience (unless you count the online courses).

What he does have is good GCSE and A level grades, and a stellar UCAT score.

mumsneedwine four offers are all well and good but since one can only take up one offer, there's something to be said for not dumbing down choices simply to maximise the number of offers. All of my eight DC have applied only to high tariff unis that they really liked the look of on the basis that they only need one offer, can only accept one offer, so why compromise on any choices? But then again I tend to take risks; these threads are supremely risk averse. Of course that doesn't matter if the sole aim is getting registration as a doctor and DC really don't mind the vibe of where they go, or the town or geographical area, or their peer group etc.

Can I make it quite clear that I am absolutely not the poster who has sent mumsneedwine an unpleasant PM despite our differences of opinion. MN HQ will be able to verify that very easily. I only ever respond to PMs; I don't initiate them but I can well imagine that people might assume, in the context, that I might be behind whatever it was that mumsneedwine was sent.

mumsneedwine why not name and shame?

Thanks. I worry about a MN impression that English Universities are made up of Oxbridge and the rest.

Oxbridge are leading research Universities, but there are others, and in terms of medical science Imperial and UCL are right up there. Though absolutely a different (as opposed to better or worse) student experience. And the courses are six year, and presumably a pretty intense six years.

This research reputation leads to a strong international reputation. DD was amused when a, rather intense, Asian friend, and leading Asian neurologist insisted she had to apply to Oxbridge. Why would you not try? Another Asian friend, a top cancer specialist, who is conducting local research on behalf of Cambridge, provided strong backing. Poor DD was a bit intimidated but stuck to her guns.

But what is better. Marrying that crofter and being a first rate GP serving a local community, or practicing/teaching/researching at a London hospital and collecting conference badges. It’s too early to for them to know, but it is worth DC positioning themselves well for the type of career they might want.

@goodbyestranger

Something to be said for “not dumbing down choices” - wow - please elaborate on which Medical Schools you would consider an application to, to be an example of “dumbing down”

Obviously I can't name particular medical schools because it would offend any posters whose DC are at the named school. But if an applicant has ten Grade 9s give or take and a clear aptitude for Medicine then applying to a medical school with a relatively low tariff in a geographically unattractive area with a peer group which is significantly lower achieving and where extra curricular activities are not hugely attractive then that might be regarded as dumbing down.

I think it's the implication that those who choose not to apply to oxford/cambridge are less intelligent, less determined, less rigorous, less everything that rubs me up the wrong way, the whole superiority complex thing. Mostly because it's wrong. But still every year the same thing pops up...