Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

Yes, forgot to mention SJT Band 1 for both too. I didn't hear of anyone applying from DS's cohort and not getting an interview at Birmingham so both applicants got interviews and offers and also ended up going to different med schools.

DD went to the Birmingham open day and really liked it - but her Band 2 is a deal breaker which is a shame.

@MidLifeCrisis007

DD went to the Birmingham open day and really liked it - but her Band 2 is a deal breaker which is a shame.

If all her other stats are perfect it might not be as bad this year. It looks as though there will be far fewer band ones and they won't all be applying there. It doesn't affect applications as much as it does at Nottingham. Not that I am an expert!

I hear you @Chilldonaldchill, but she's not contextual either.

She stands a much better chance elsewhere, and, as we all know, the key is to apply strategically (.....with a little guidance from the great @GANFYD!)

The school im talking about is actually selective in sixth form so takes all the kids from the area with the best GCSEs. The main school also performs v well at GCSE. Have no issue with contextual places just don't understand why certain schools like that one are on the list as it puts the kids at really bad schools at a disadvantage.

DD seems to have decided to absolutely not do BMAT. It would cost £150 apparently - her college add on a centre fee. So her final choices are all from UKWPMed which are Keele, Hull York, Manchester (I think!), Plymouth. I’m disappointed that she’s not including BSMS but it’s obviously her choice and it is too close to home. It’s hard to believe she’s old enough to be actually applying

@BabbleBee - I think she can apply to Brighton & Sussex without BMAT if she's on a UKWPMED programme. See www.bsms.ac.uk/_pdf/about/ukwpmed-scheme-details-july-2021.pdf.

If she's on the BrightMed programme she should ask someone from BSMS to confirm that she can apply if she hasn't done BMAT. Certainly someone on a different UKWPMED programme can apply to BSMS with UCAT.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne thanks for the link I hadn’t seen that. I’ll see what she says, I think the main reason is that it’s too close to home!
Interestingly on the link it says UKWPMED is only for A100 medicine but Manchester is A106 so she needs to check that too.

@BabbleBee always worth checking, but Manchester is the only one which calls it A106 so 99% sure that if they accept the programme it will be fine

@Monkey2001 it’s all listed on the BrightMed and UKWPMED info so it must be ok.

I swear the application process is part of how they decide if you are going to make it as a doctor… honestly it’s one confusing thing after another and I’m sure it’s all a test

Does anyone have recommendations for a BMAT course? DD wants to do the Medic Portal one. Currently offering a F2F option 😮

In most cases A100 is the standard-entry programme, as distinct from foundation/gateway year or graduate-entry programmes. Manchester messes things up by having the course code A106 for its standard entry. I can't remember the history around that.

To be honest, although we do try to make things clear, I don't think we particularly mind that students find the application process complicated. Medical students will have to navigate a lot of labyrinthine processes to access NHS facilities, IT systems, etc., and we need to be confident they will be able to do it. Although it's not an official reason for using UCAT, I would say one argument for its use is that students who do well in it are the ones who are able to work out (or find out) how to approach the questions. Just like we know that successful competitive sportspeople will work hard and cope well with setbacks, we have an idea that people who've done well in UCAT - especially if they think it's nonsense - will apply themselves to working out how to deal with other tasks. People who believe they shouldn't be expected to know anything unless someone has taught them it do not make good medical students (or doctors, if they get that far).

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne I agree. I’ve been an NHS nurse for over 20 years and I’ve said to DD that if she finds this difficult, just wait until you get to the point of having to navigate the likes of SystmOne 😆 It’s me that’s confused tbh, I think she’s enjoyed the process in many ways.

@SandyBayley

Does anyone have recommendations for a BMAT course? DD wants to do the Medic Portal one. Currently offering a F2F option 😮

DS1 did the BMAT Ninja one first time round, but really the best thing is to go through the assumed knowledge guides on the BMAT site and a load of past papers. That's what he did second time and his score was higher (6.5 and 7.8, Cambridge don't care about essay).

Thanks @Monkey2001 - I'll let her know. Do you know what Oxford do with the BMAT score?

@SandyBayley

Thanks *@Monkey2001* - I'll let her know. Do you know what Oxford do with the BMAT score?

40% S1, 40% S2, 20%S3 www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne. Your post has grabbed my attention. So do you work in admissions for Manchester? Do you know if other unis view the UCAT and competitive sport in the same light? That's music to DD's ears as she got 3190 in the Ucat and is very sporty. I didn't think any med school would be interested in her sporting achievements!

I believe Nottingham will guarantee an interview if you meet their basic requirements and are elite in your sport. I think you can contact them here:
www.nottingham.ac.uk/sport/performancesport/sportsscholarships/index.aspx
to see if your experience counts. You've but got much time left though. I don't know how quickly they reply! I think you have to be a national performance pathway.

So the link above is actually for current students. But I've definitely heard that Nottingham do guarantee an interview for certain levels of sportspeople applying to medicine. It might be worth an email. (And sorry if I'm wrong).

She's not elite....and got band 2 so Nottingham is out!

@MidLifeCrisis007

She's not elite....and got band 2 so Nottingham is out!

Ah ok. I've found it now on page 14 if their admissions document. It's not entirely clear whether the same points requirements stand as for non athlete applicants (says need to meet minimum academic and UCAT criteria) so if anyone is an elite athlete it would definitely be worth a phone call/email. They offer AAB to them as well.

Actually @MidLifeCrisis007 with the number of Band 1s so low this year I think she would be OK for Nottingham if her VR/GCSEs are good, and VR must be with 3190.

@Monkey2001

Actually *@MidLifeCrisis007* with the number of Band 1s so low this year I think she would be OK for Nottingham if her VR/GCSEs are good, and VR must be with 3190.

This all depends if the people with B1 (and likely to be 6000 of them, even on current rates) realise the advantage this gives them. Assuming 700s, 700s, 800s, 700s to make up 3190, that gives 52, plus 45 B2, plus let's say 5 x9 and 3 x 8 (29), that gives 126 points. A B1 (60), even low 600s in all UCAT (40), 4 x9s, 3 x 8s and a 7 (27) will give 1 more point than this. There is a belief that Nottingham is UCAT heavy - it is not necessarily, as 2440 scores the same as 2800, if the subsets fall right (or wrong!!). Plus CAGs grade inflation for GCSEs means more 8s and 9s around. Somebody with a B1 can get a grade lower in 7 GCSEs and still score more than a B2 with a higher UCAT (again depends on them being in the same hundreds for UCAT in each section), and could score over 700 points less in UCAT and still have a higher score if GCSE points are equal.

Nottingham has become somewhere that suits the (GMC version) of good judgement, good GCSE-achieving, good reading, slightly weaker UCAT-performing student that is presumably what they are looking for!
6 x9s, 2 x 8s, B1 and 2440+ (if the subsets fall right) UCAT should get an interview.
B2, same GCSEs needs over 2940, up to 3500 (with >800 in VR) to still be a point short of the same score!

Now if those with a B1, but slightly lower stats, do NOT realise their magic power at Nottingham, then yes, it may drop cut offs a bit, but I think a B1 is key to being safe there this year.

Thanks @GANFYD . DS's best friend wants to apply to Nottingham with a band 2 and around 2950 UCAT but VR in the 600's . He has excellent general stats and is contextual for many places so could be confident of interviews but likes the sports at Nottingham. I think I will send your comment above to his mum - feels like interfering, but no point saying afterwards that I thought that would happen!

@Monkey2001 Those are almost exactly DD's stats - are that's why she has sadly taken Nottingham off her list.

She's currently rethinking her 'Definitely not London' stance and looking at Barts...