Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

Going to dip a toe in here. Dd is a first year medical student at edinburgh, ds now looking at medicine too. Will be interesting to see the differences in the process now due to covid. Seems to be an even longer process for this years applicants poor things.

There will now be one final exam for every medical school to go alongside the SJT

The Medical Licensing Assessment (MLA) isn't supposed to be used to rank applicants for foundation programmes. It's a pass/fail assessment: if you fail you're not allowed to practise. Ranking will be on the SJT and the remaining components of the educational performance measure (essentially your ranking within your own medical school cohort). Of course, there's no guarantee this won't change over the next five years.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne it is changing. The current 3rd years will be the last to use the ranking within cohort. Extra points no longer will be earned for them (they are not happy about this). From then on a new national exam will be sat.

@mumsneedwine. I know the new national exam will be sat. The current position is that the educational achievement points (for intercalated degrees, etc.) are being removed from the educational achievement measure (EPM). The EPM will still be used in ranking but will only be based on deciles within the student's own cohort:

healtheducationengland.sharepoint.com/:b:/g/UKFPO/ERIjh3n9d2dJnUrCGxmou5IByq-Qlpwt5yOdBlT_VE3YBQ?e=TfIaro&fbclid=IwAR3UjuiL6oLcV6v1VhADK2pWg9EORyWFFktBMzd0xEd9NRu_dnpl3EsAMGw

UKFPO (UK Foundation Programme Office) is reviewing the value of the EPM: it would prefer to put greater emphasis on the SJT. For the time being, though, it says the EPM will still be used.

The GMC has repeatedly said that the MLA (the new national exam) won't be used for ranking.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne not what the medical students have been told. So someone better put the 2nd and 3rd years straight. 3rd years particularly fed up as they have the chance to earn extra points taken away but still ranked as cohort. And also have to take the new exam as standardisation, but it don't count. 2nd years will sit the bee national finals and be ranked in that. SJT is already 50% of gear for 3rd years (DD would love it to be more ).

New national finals.

Apologies @NoNotHimTheOtherOne you are right. Just spoke to DD who says her mums and idiot 😊

I think any early-twenties daughter will take any opportunity to say her mum's an idiot.

It is awfully complicated, and I agree that third-year students are very unhappy. They're getting the shitty end of the stick at the moment anyway, as they're being squeezed out of placements by the need to ensure fourth- & fifth-years have demonstrated all their required skills before final assessments.

The student room website may be helpful.

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=195

Mine starting CP1 on 8/3. She can not wait after months of online learning. She's worked as an HCA too and had been lucky to pick up many new skills. As well as an appreciation of how wonderful HCAs are. I'll never forget the man who looked after my dad and chatted about wine with him for ours. Anyway, sorry I've slightly derailed this.

Has anyone come across/used these guys?

educationprojects.co.uk/medical-projects/virtual-work-experience-week/

Hello all, some of you know me from DS1's applications (2019 - 4 interviews, no offers, 2020 - 4 interviews, 3 offers, now a first year at St Andrews). Waves to @mumsneedwine, @HostessTrolley, @sluj.

I am joining this thread as DS2 has realised he wants to do medicine. As he is doing double maths, physics and PE (thought he was going to do engineering or sports science), he is very limited in his choices. He will be applying to Newcastle A100 and A104 at Manchester and Cardiff as they are the only ones he is eligible for. Dundee also has a medicine for non-science A levels, but because he does both maths and physics he is not eligible. He is planning to do AS Chemistry next year so that he can finish Chemistry A level in a Y14 and apply to more med schools in 2023 if he does not get an offer for 2022.

He is now doing all the virtual work experience things he can find and we are making sure we know EXACTLY how they assess the applications. He will start medify at the end of May and try to get a UCAT date in July, but I have suggested that he starts trying to get his head round Abstract Reasoning earlier as that is the one where I think you can get much quicker as you get used to looking for the patterns and success in UCAT requires great speed. Neither Manchester or Newcastle use the personal statement at all, so it is all about the UCAT for him. Cardiff use the personal statement and it might be very significant as so many will score 27 for GCSEs if they continue to give 3 points for 8/9.

I agree that we might expect to see some different criteria used for assessment this year. As they all have CAGS and there are so many top grades, universities like Oxford, Cardiff and Leeds are going to struggle to differentiate candidates. I have attached an analysis of how top GCSE grades have moved in the last few years. We are going to have to be really careful applying past cut offs for med schools which score GCSEs to the 2022 cohort. I think more may rely on the UCAT/BMAT so it will become even more important.

Somebody said our DC should be grateful not be 2021 applicants. I am afraid I think it will be worse for 2022 - there will be another cohort with very high CAGs from 2021 who will apply from a gap year.

When is the best time to do the BMAT and UCAT exams? We were thinking of preparing over the summer holidays and then sitting the UCAT shortly afterwards. Are there specific BMAT dates for particular unis apart from Oxford for which you have to sit the November exam? I wasn’t thinking of July as DD has mocks in May and she won’t then get a break between one set of exams and the next.

There are only 2 sittings, the September BMAT date is not available yet, but it is always end of August/beginning of September. Definitely better to do that one (if not applying to Oxford) so you have results before you make your final choices.

UCAT you pick a date between end of July and end of September. Will be getting it done as early as possible here so that summer is clear. No point in BMAT for DS as none of the ones he can apply to use it.

You only want a month to six weeks to prepare for the UCAT, so there is plenty of time after the May mocks. People say that if you prepare for more than 2 months you are likely to peak too early.

There is no best time. It just depends what works for you. As the pp said, there are only two BMAT sittings - one at the beginning of Sept-ish and one in late October-ish. If you want to apply for Oxford, you have to take the second sitting test so you have to submit your UCAS application before knowing your BMAT result. When my dd did her application, everyone in her school sat the second sitting (whether applying for Oxford or not) so they could take the Summer for UCAT/holidays/bit of relaxation and then have September and half term for the BMAT but there are obviously pros and cons to both ways.

My dd started UCAT prep at the beginning of July, took the test on 12 August, we went on family holiday for last two weeks of August and then she started BMAT prep at the beginning of Sept. Slowly at first as she was back at school and then ramped up over the October half term.

Monkey is definitely right about UCAT prep - you reach a certain point where you really don't improve any more and (with some questions) you even start to go backwards as you start to second guess yourself. BMAT section 1 is pretty similar to the UCAT but the second section is science based and needs some work especially if you aren't doing all science/maths A levels.

Wow Monkey2001, just when you thought it was time to breathe...
I was so glad when your DS1 got his place even if its been an unusual start for him. I wish your DS2 lots of luck and he has a great level headed mum to guide him through and a great lesson in resilience from his big brother.
I can't believe my DS is approaching his finals at UEA. He is currently on placement and has really appreciated the hands on course. Fingers crossed for the exams.
Good luck 👍

Sorry to jump on this thread. @sluj how has your DS found UEA? My DS is due to start there in September after applying with deferred entry before knowing anything about COVID. 😁

Hi @Hattifatteners, both of my DSs are at UEA but only the eldest is doing medicine. Is your DS doing medicine?
They both love UEA and Norwich, very safe, green and a really friendly place. The medicine course has been brilliant. He had so much hands on work, starting in week 2 of year 1 with a day a week working with a GP for the whole five years plus 3 or more longer placements in hospitals every year. He was literally giving flu jabs at the GP surgery before the end of the first term. There is a good reason UEA students come out extremely well as being the best prepared students for their foundation posts.
I am happy to give specific information if you want to message me but I feel confident that your DS will love UEA and you will feel happy he is a good, safe place. Let's hope covid has been conquered by then.

Hi @sluj and thank you. Yes, he will be studying medicine. We really liked the department and the campus during the open day. Those were the times! He had other offers, but really liked UEA and still feels the same way. He was lucky in applying with deferred entry to start with and has actually got a job at the moment. Hopefully things a slightly better by September. It is reassuring to hear that your DS has enjoyed the course. I think the hands on approach will suit our DS too.

Hi @Monkey2001 - you really are a glutton for punishment!

My d did the ucat in the first week it was available - she figured that she was already in study mode for her locks and she had plans for the summer before the madness of year 13. She decided quite late on to do the BMAT so ended up with the second sitting, which was the same day her boyfriend was taking the TSA so that was a joy.

She’s been volunteering at a vaccination clinic in London and they just offered her a paid role, she’s doing a couple of shifts a week doing either admin tasks or giving vaccine injections. She said weekends are long, so it’s nice to feel useful and being paid is an added bonus

Locks? Mocks lol 😂

The medics at St Andrews were offered vaccinating jobs but had to be out of their area so DS1 not keen. Glad your DD has managed to get involved @HostessTrolley. Both my DSs said they would have loved to get infected with Covid for £4.5k!

@Monkey2001 - That was some turnaround in luck for your DS from one year to the next.... or was it?! What did he seemingly do so much better at interview second time round to get so many offers?!

DD is applying in the Autumn and currently planning just UCAT med schools. Exeter likely to be her first choice, followed by St Andrews.

@MidLifeCrisis007 I think he was a bit unlucky first time, we never understood why he failed the Sheffield interview in the "knowledge of course and city" station first time round as he genuinely loved the course and city. 2nd time he was more strategic about interview to offer ratios as his stats were good enough to get interviews at any university which did not require Biology. I think the main thing was that he had an extra year of maturity - I think there is a reason that girls generally do better at interview in Y13!