Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

@KingscoteStaff that is exactly the problem! Those are the MINIMUM requirements. Cardiff scores 9 best GCSEs, including Eng, Maths, Science (3 for A*/8/9, 2 for A/7, 1 for B). For the last 2 years you have needed 27 points and to have put the things they wanted in the PS. If too many students meet those requirements, they use a UCAT cut off.

@KingscoteStaff you need to find the 'selection for interview' criteria for each Uni. Every one is different 🥸

Thank you! Can you signpost DD to the 27 points requirement on their website, just to give her an idea where similar requirements may be hiding on all the other ones she's looking at?

They don't publish cut off www.cardiff.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2022/medicine-mbbch

You can search FOIs or read 2021 thrread on TSR

Sorry, not being clear. She can see where it says how the GCSE points are calculated, but not where it says that they have required 27 points for the last 2 years. Would that be in a FOI request somewhere?

Thanks @Monkey2001

Before I go and do the things I should be doing, if you email Admissions they will encourage you to apply, but I encourage people to ask whether they would have got an interview last year with their stats if the system has not changed this year. It is a bit like playing Happy Families - you have to as exactly the right questions!

I think the extra points various places are giving WP applicants this year might shake things up a bit. Birmingham, Exeter and a few others have systems which strongly favour WP applicants - which is good news for @mumsneedwine student, but might make it trickier for most of our kids.

None of them seem to be admitting whether they will treat CAG GCSEs in a different way.

@kingscotestaff she could just email Admissions and ask how many non contextual applicants with 26 points were interviewed. I would expect the answer to be 0, but she must make it clear that she is asking about applicants with no flags, I think Welsh and disadvantaged applicants often distort the figures.

At the open day they said CAGs will be treated same way

Thanks Monkey, she is off to word an 'impossible to misunderstand' email!

All unis have treated A level CAGs/TAGs same as "real" exams. Some (Liverpool) have changed focus from GCSEs to UCAT, but they have to treat theGCSEs as equal really.

@KingscoteStaff Nottingham have changed their scoring system because of CAGS - less emphasis on GCSEs, more on VR and SJT. But nowhere is making any distinction between normal exams and COVID ones - that would be so unfair I'd complain !!!
And @Monkey2001 is right. Contextual is being given a lot more weight at some places.
Best place to find cut off for interview is TSR. Look at the the med schools interested in, find dates when offers being given out and see who got in and who didn't. But be aware it changes every year so it's always a guessing game.
Cardiff using more UCAT this year and also took a lot of Welsh students last year.
You lot have inspired me this morning and my year 7 maths class are doing a lesson on abstract reasoning first week back. I've thrown a few UCAT ones in 😂

But nowhere is making any distinction between normal exams and COVID ones - that would be so unfair I'd complain !!!

I know some places have discussed it, but I think they've all come down on the too-complicated/difficult-to-defend side of the argument, hence some medical schools shifting emphasis away from GCSE grades instead. It would be really difficult to do, even if it were defensible, as people applying in a given year didn't all sit their GCSEs 2 years before.

Where applicants are ranked on GCSE grades, or a combination of GCSEs and other things (e.g. UCAT/SJT, personal statement), 2022 applicants need to be aware that everyone's GCSE grades will be higher if they sat them in 2020 and that the cut-offs will therefore be higher. I can't find Cardiff's policy document for 2022 entry but if they have used UCAT to separate applicants with 9x 9/8/A* in previous years, and if they are selecting for interview in the same way this year, it would seem likely that the thresholds for personal statement and UCAT will be much higher.

@KingscoteStaff - This is the reference to 27 points points.

It says the maximum you can score is 27 but I don't think it says you have to have 27.

But Cardiff did seem to only offer to people with 27 points last few years. We know this as others with 26 points and same UCATs didn't get interviews.

Yup, that's what I found, but clearly knowledge of historical cut off is relevant.

I am hoping that Admissions depts will be able to indicate whether DD's stats would have gained her an interview in previous years - though some univesities are still not sure how many 2022 places they will already have filled with deferred students from this year...

[quote FanSpamTastic]@KingscoteStaff - This is the reference to 27 points points.

It says the maximum you can score is 27 but I don't think it says you have to have 27.

[/quote]
No, they won’t tell you that, they will say they would love to receive an application!
The cut off does not have to be 27, they interview the top X number of people applying, so the cut off is whatever that person has scored. Unfortunately, they have had more people with full GCSE marks applying that they have interview spots for in the last few years, so they have then used PS and UCAT as a tiebreaker.
It is different for contextual applicants (which includes most of those in Wales) as they get extra consideration

Thank you @GANFYD. I fear DD may be bothering you on TSR...

@KingscoteStaff

Thank you *@GANFYD*. I fear DD may be bothering you on TSR...

Happy to help, if I can 😊

2019 cut off was a bit lower because only a 9 got 3 points and 9s were uncommon in 2017 (only used for maths and English), 8 was counted as an A. Using 8/9 as equivalent to A* meant that a lot more people get top score

2017 7.1% of results were A*s, 2020 6.3% were 9s and a further 8.1% were 8s.

In 2019 4.5% got 9 and 6.7% got 8.

Bit of a mess because typing on phone, but grades getting 3 points at Cardiff:
2017 - 7.1%
2019 - 11.2%
2020 - 14.4%

Sorry, that was badly phrased! The years relate to when GCSEs were taken, so 7.1% of GCSE grades of the cohort applying in 2019 were worth 3 points. Obviously that is a national average, not the average for medics, the point is that 2022 applicants are significantly more likely to have full points, so UCAT cut off will be used.

Does anyone know if that Cardiff scoring thingy applies to the dentistry course too - am trying to work out if it does!
Thank you!

@ClarasZoo it's a bit more holistic, so they seem to score everything, somehow . Bit less transparent 🤷‍♀️.

DD is a 4th year medic at Cardiff. One of her best friends is student academic rep, or something. But it means she is full of useful information and gets answers from those in high places! There is a link to a blog she wrote on the Cardiff website, and from there you can link to message her.
blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/insiders/2020/04/14/medics-tips-content-and-my-journey/
She is called Ellen and I'm sure she would try to find answers to any questions your DC have