Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

[quote Monkey2001]@Theredjellybean your DD and GANFYD's DS are really the exception to the rule. This year there were 102,770 applications to medical school (28,690 candidates applying to up to 4 medical schools) and 19,870 offers, of which 11,690 were accepted. If I have interpreted the data correctly, a credible split (won't be quite right, but reasonable approximation) is:
5.2% of applicants got 4 offers
4.4% of applicants got 3 offers
3.5% of applicants got 2 offers
27.7% of applicants got 1 offer
59.3% of applicants got 0 offers[/quote]
Yes, my children are fortunate and privileged to go to a selective school, with experience of medicine admissions, to have a weird aptitude for the UCAT and easy access to medics providing extensive work experience/volunteering.
They are the exception, not the rule.
I am not deluded or naive enough to think that the advantages they have been given do not play a considerable part in the success they had, nor that everyone is fortunate enough to be in the same situation.

I didnt need a lecture on how privilege works.
I wanted to make the point that perhaps these young people should also focus on where they will be happy and thrive. A course that suits their learning style, a location they like etc, these are important. It's a long time and slog at med school.. I know... And so being somewhere you like, you feel supported etc is vital.
My very able godson chose on basis of where is "perfect" academics would get him, and dropped out in Yr two as the whole uni was the wrong fit.. He asked me afterwards why no one had suggested he actually thought through where he wanted to study as much as what he wanted to study.
Plus I never said my dd had all those privileges... You are presuming

@Theredjellybean

I didnt need a lecture on how privilege works. I wanted to make the point that perhaps these young people should also focus on where they will be happy and thrive. A course that suits their learning style, a location they like etc, these are important. It's a long time and slog at med school.. I know... And so being somewhere you like, you feel supported etc is vital. My very able godson chose on basis of where is "perfect" academics would get him, and dropped out in Yr two as the whole uni was the wrong fit.. He asked me afterwards why no one had suggested he actually thought through where he wanted to study as much as what he wanted to study. Plus I never said my dd had all those privileges... You are presuming

My comments were only about my own kids, as they are the only ones about whim I have any knowledge. My advice is look where you should hopefully get interviews, then choose the places you would prefer to go. No point at all applying to somewhere you have zero chance of an interview, however much you may love it. If the uni is more important than the course, then there are easier ways to get an offer to study there than applying for medicine. Each applicant has to decide what would make them happier, not all are fortunate enough to have choices.

I would just add that my son also got 4 offers this year. He too had the privilege of going to a selective school with a track record in successful med school applications and he also had a natural aptitude for UCAT and a self-starting approach to his application and securing the right volunteering/shadowing experience. However, he also had parents who, although professionals, were not medics and there was a steep learning curve to be able to support him through the year. Individuals like GANFYD (who in my son's words from his own TSR experience 'just knows everything about everything'), Mumsneedwine and now Monkey have no agenda other than to help others and that they do in spades. If I could give one piece of advice to this year's parents, it would be to listen to what they have to say.

Cost is a massive one at my school. I'm now an expert of bursaries and who gives what. Unfortunately mine don't get the luxury of choosing from all Unis as some are financially out of reach. Even full loan won't cover accommodation in some cities.
Sunderland and Lancaster are getting loads of mine this year as offering lots of lovely incentives 😊.

@opoponax ah thank you. My DD thought UCAT was devised by a sadist on steroids and struggled with it. Got her best score on the day.

@mumsneedwine it's great to hear about your success stories. I remember telling my son that I assumed the UCAT was just like an eleven+ exam so he raised an eyebrow and timed me to do some practice questions. I don't think he got his UCAT aptitude from his mother!

I think it is rather sad that you even have to ask that question.
Some schools do not have the privilege and support available that it seems your school has in spades. Many schools are non-selective, have pupils with many widening participation flags and teachers who work hard to encourage ambition and excellence with little in the way of back up or facilities.
You should consider yourself very fortunate that you have not come across issues like these and are naive enough to have to ask why some schools struggle more than others

GANFYD I'm not quite clear how you know which school I'm associated with, since I've never named the school. It's slightly disturbing (although, to be fair, less disturbing than the weird private messages you sent a little while back, which I had to notify MN about). You don't appear to know however that I've been involved in educational access for many years now, until very recently, so your comment is rather funny, in its way.

That should have been bolded as a GANFYD quote.

Theredjellybean none of us need lectures on how privilege works, but that doesn't mean we won't get them. Those giving the lectures don't see the irony.

I mean, I won't get in to specifics, but DS1 managed to get into several med schools including Oxford on the first attempt having done all his own research, while sharing a bedroom with two brothers and a small cottage with seven siblings and myself (no father). And yet GANFYD with kids at a fee paying school chooses to instruct me on privilege. He also managed in the same situation to get 12 A at GCSE and 5 or 6A at A level. He's now seems to be thriving in a London hospital. GANFYD, don't talk down to posters, please.

Anyone else watching Love Island. My DDs use it as a way to spot idiot bloke behaviour 😊.

Admittedly he did go to a state grammar, which means he did have educational privilege, even if financial privilege was somewhat lacking.

Yes I'm watching Love Island mumsneedwine because DD said I had to. Something about Jake. And Liberty.

@goodbyestranger

I mean, I won't get in to specifics, but DS1 managed to get into several med schools including Oxford on the first attempt having done all his own research, while sharing a bedroom with two brothers and a small cottage with seven siblings and myself (no father). And yet GANFYD with kids at a fee paying school chooses to instruct me on privilege. He also managed in the same situation to get 12 A at GCSE and 5 or 6A at A level. He's now seems to be thriving in a London hospital. GANFYD, don't talk down to posters, please.

My children have never attended a fee paying school . I think people reading what is posted can make up their own minds about attitudes

It's completely ghastly mumsneedwine but most of my DC are hooked, despite their Oxbridge education.

Anyhow, it's the main reason I'm dipping into MN atm :)

Oh I though they were indie kids GANFYD, sorry. Seems that I'm making the same sort of incorrect presumptions as you! My bad. Anyhow, you got the bit about educational access I hope. Please don't send any more private messages! I really don't like them!

I mean I'm fine with all the friendly ones I get, of course.

My tuppence worth on the process....
Good school advice and direction hugely affects the outcome of applicants' interviews/offers.
I am an educated and informed mum who works in education. I naively assumed that my DD would receive 3/4 offers on the basis of perfect academics and her involvement and achievements in many extra-curriculars. She has had a job for the past 2 years but her medical work experience was cancelled due to cv19. Ucat was strong, but not stellar - and not something she was concerned about.
She thankfully got one offer, but out of the 7 hopeful medics, 3 got no offers and nobody got more than 2. I know last year wasn't normal, but she put a lot of time and effort researching where to apply and got 3 interviews. But her tales of how some of her friends picked their unis were unbelievable, with one lad not realising Liverpool had a points system till my DD told him after applying.
School had no involvement in helping students choose a uni or give them advice of how to apply strategically. A couple of students had only 1 interview.
So, what I'm saying is some schools will be in the fortunate position of having someone like @mumsneedwine on the team, some will have none, so access really is patchy at best. @GANFYD and others on here and TSR are thankfully available for help where school support is lacking.
For 2022 entry, research and delve into facts and figures. Read criteria again and again - getting as many interviews as possible is the only aim at this stage of the game.

Just adding my 2penn'orth here.
My dd has just left school. Traditionally they are used to all their medical applicants getting 4 interviews and at least 2 offers. This year their statistics were woeful. Of my dd's friends, 5 of whom applied to medicine, all of whom bar one has a straight run of 8s and 9s at GCSE (and the exception had a couple of 7s in there), 2 got no offers (one from one interview, one got no interviews at all), 2 got one offer from 2 interviews (10 x 9 at GCSE and predicted all A*), the other got 2 offers from 2 interviews. Their BMATs were exemplary, their UCATs were excellent.
As a result, as a doctor myself and sad that these fabulous engaged committed students hadn't even got interviews, I've started helping the school for next year's applicants and doing the legwork.
The students this year just did what students from other years have done - applied where they wanted to - but this year that backfired unless the list of where they wanted to go happened to match the interview-offer criteria.
So anyone applying to UCL and Kind and Imperial and Oxford (which several of them did) came unstuck. Anyone applying to Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff and Liverpool (of the above group of applicants with excellent GCSEs) had a much better chance of getting more interviews.
The school was genuinely shocked because it had never experienced this before. Anyone getting lots of offers this year applied strategically even if they weren't aware of it at the time.
I'm very much hoping that the work I've put in will increase the interview-offer numbers for this next year's cohort (and the re-applicants).
It's completely true that anecdotes from one year won't help at all the following year as the requirements change so fast.

'You only need one offer'. My mantra for years. This year one offer was like gold dust.
The more of us that help others the fairer the world becomes. I know my students will bring a v different perspective to medical school as lots live in poverty and know the effects this can have on health (fantastic EPQ subject !). One once told an interviewer when asked when he had shown resilience that the lift was broken in his block and as he lived on the 19th floor he had to climb a lot of steps. But as the lift smelt of wee and weed he was not only fitter but his lungs were happier. He got a place 😊.

@mumsneedwine

'You only need one offer'. My mantra for years. This year one offer was like gold dust. The more of us that help others the fairer the world becomes. I know my students will bring a v different perspective to medical school as lots live in poverty and know the effects this can have on health (fantastic EPQ subject !). One once told an interviewer when asked when he had shown resilience that the lift was broken in his block and as he lived on the 19th floor he had to climb a lot of steps. But as the lift smelt of wee and weed he was not only fitter but his lungs were happier. He got a place 😊.

Brilliant, was that Newcastle? My DS had a complete blank when asked about resilience, he could have used DofE, Ten Tors, music practice, but your student's answer is in another league!

Your school is very lucky to have you. Our school has a student run medsoc, but no adult with knowledge. DS2 is now coaching some of them, passed his Medify account on to one who had not considered it, made his best friend realise the importance of preparing and is advising people on how to choose. The UCAT claims to be an exam for which success is not determined by education, but preparing on Medify, with the right user interface which lets you develop effective strategies, such as guess and flag, makes a very significant difference.

Every year they have students applying to Cardiff because they like it, having no idea that you need perfect GCSEs. DS1 did GCSEs at the school and NOBODY out of 250 students got 9 A*s (they only took 9) and it wasn't because there were no very bright kids.

@Monkey2001 was Manchester 😊. Think a lot of my students give answers that interviewers may not have been expecting - life experiences very different to majority of candidates.
I do really enjoy helping the kids although I'm no use on UCAT at all - the AR part may as well be in Chinese.
Hope everyone's kids are finding UCAT ok but if they haven't got that amazing score don't worry. There will be options 😊.

@Monkey2001 So with Cardiff, the MSC document says

Eight GCSEs at grade B/6 including Biology, Chemistry, and Maths, or equivalent qualifications Grade 6 (B) is required in Maths and EnglishLanguage.

Is the requirement for 9 A*s hidden in the prospectus somewhere?