Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

[quote Solarlantern]@Monkey2001 that sounds like very sound advice after my DS's experience last year - one thing my DS is struggling with is finding the interview/offer ratio stats for 202; he's asked on TSR and has I think been advised to make FOI requests but I wondered if you knew anywhere where this info would be collated?[/quote]
Is that 2020 or 2021?
A lot of places have not released 2021 yet, some have 2020 on their websites, or I have some if he tags me on TSR (can’t promise they are the relevant ones!).
I also think that things will be quite different to usual this year, as a lot of Med schools were burned by over-offering for 2021 entry so may be much more cautious this year. I am not sure historical data can be relied upon as it would usually

@Solarlantern I am thinking about asking Admissions at the 2 my DS can apply to for planned number of places, interviews and offers for 2022 entry as they usually state that information at open days, but I also think 2022 is up in the air and they can't afford to over-recruit again.

Something like:
"In view of the number of successful medical offer holders in 2021, can you please confirm that you still have X places unallocated for 2022 entry and that you still intend to interview Y candidates and make around Z offers. How many offer holders from 2021 have offers carried over pending results of Autumn 2021 or Summer 2022 exams".

It is also worth signing up for on line open days in the autumn to find out their most recent plans, but with the govt making decisions about exams for 2022 some time in the autumn, which might include a decision on grade inflation, nobody knows what might happen. The ever helpful Ecolier on TSR said that he thinks they will cut the number of interviews, but maintain the offer/interview ratio, and he is involved in medical school admissions wherever he is. I am expecting extensive use of waiting lists to help medical schools fine-tune their numbers.

..... meant to say, I will not ask until end of September as I think they with have decided yet.

Greetings from sunny Croatia 😊

I can report that DD is still (sort of) of focussed. She's reading and enjoying 'Being Mortal' between windsurfing and sunbathing. And pondering how it's possible that everyone she knows who went to Boardmasters got covid. Maybe that should be an interview question this year 😉

Thanks @GANFYD and @Monkey2001 - he'll be signing up for a few of the open days once he's narrowed down his choices a bit so hopefully there will be more info available after those re this year's stats too - although of course that may be no guide to 2022. At least he's now decided not to do the BMAT so a few less to research!

Please listen to @GANFYD and @Monkey2001 as they really know what they are talking about and are very up to date.
Many students will still be interviewing in March as some Unis don't even start until February and there are days of interviews. This year was v late everywhere due to COVID (interviewers are doctors and they were a bit busy) and some interviews were still going on in May.
St George's are usually one of the first if you'd like an earlier one.
There's a really good book on prepping for interviews (1001 interview question I think it's called). Know the 5 GMC standards, why medicine (not to 'care' as they will likely ask you why not a nurse), understand how the NHS works (or doesn't), be able to talk confidentially about a new development in medicine (RNA vaccines ?), and listen. Lots of MMI stations require listening to the 'patient'.
If never had an interview before then see if can find people to give you some mock ones. Via Teams if that's the way yours are held.

And a happy story, I had one get into St George's through clearing this year. A few missed their offers so retaking but most are happily off to Uni (although several have been tempted by the £10,000 redirection offer and hoping to start somewhere new with a healthy bank balance). My Exeter student now has £10,000, free accommodation next year and has flown off to Greece to help with refugees. V happy bunny.

@mumsneedwine

And a happy story, I had one get into St George's through clearing this year. A few missed their offers so retaking but most are happily off to Uni (although several have been tempted by the £10,000 redirection offer and hoping to start somewhere new with a healthy bank balance). My Exeter student now has £10,000, free accommodation next year and has flown off to Greece to help with refugees. V happy bunny.

How lovely!

Thank you@Monkey2001, that’s really good to know. Sheffield was on the list for other reasons too. Haven’t heard from UCAT yet but I think the best DD can hope for is an annotation.

GANFYD I would assume that advice given by our school is pretty sound, given the success rate, where students still, even last year, managed four offers out of four (so no, not historical).

Did your own DS do something very different in his second year of application Monkey, which meant he was successful second time around? Very few kids at our school find they need to apply a second time. It's an occasional thing, not regular.

mumsneedwine it's clear that GANFYD and now Monkey are both absolutely steeped in admissions statistics and those are no doubt helpful up to a point. But it's worth asking the question why some schools have a long history of success whereas others seem to struggle. The advice given by the more successful schools must be fairly sound I'd have thought, on a common sense basis.

@notmedicmum Sheffield are fantastic at admissions, very clear and transparent- they give the interview stations beforehand ! Julian, the head, used to help on TSR but was told he couldn't anymore due to GDPR. But he was much loved by mums - my DD met him at her interview and he was as lovely in person 😊.
2800 is still a v v good UCAT.

@goodbyestranger please offer up to date advice only - please. Lots has changed since your child was admitted, lots has changed since mine was and she's only a 4th year.
If I didn't keep up to date because of school I'd not comment anymore as medical school admissions is an ever changing thing.

mumsneedwine I obviously don't base my knowledge purely on one DC who is now in core training! I have also kept current because of access/ school. My advice isn't historical, as explained.

Anyhow, what could be useful with second time around applicants is to find out what they did differently second time around. That's something we don't really know about at school, because so few need to re-apply.

I would also say that parents getting too deep into the application statistics may well be suffocating for a DC. These applicants need to be self starters, so at best light touch intervention is probably the best way to go.

best

My dd got four out of four this year.
Is off to Bristol her top choice.
It is possible
We didn't focus on stats and ratios etc.
I encouraged her to choose based on where she felt she'd be happy and successful for five yrs.
What course structure appealed to her.
When she'd chosen she then looked at what each school particularly focused on in the application process and tried to cover this off.
But its actually very generic... They want high ucat scores, varied work experience, a commitment to something.. Voluntary or paid work, and at interview there was huge emphasis on demonstrating resilience..
I am involved heavily in the regulation of medical education.. I can say choosing students with resilience and awareness of the pressure of the profession is the biggest focus accroos all med schools bar oxbridge at the moment

I would say that we have adopted @Theredjellybean’s approach and then looked at stats to tweak choices following UCAT. My DC is the one doing most of the research unprompted. I think if DC is at a comp without a history of sending numerous students to med school as DD is, you are completely unsupported (DD knows much more than the careers person) and you are very grateful for any advice and tips from parents who have been through it before, and those such as @Monkey2001 and @GANFYD whom, I believe, work in secondary education

@Theredjellybean 4/4 is amazing this year ! Well done. DD must be an outstanding candidate. Been a tough year with less offers and no allowance for any slipped grades. My DD is at Bristol and loving it there.
Advice is given freely on here and for most candidates applying strategically is important. Why we got 21 (med/vet/dentist) in this year from our outer city comp. Not everyone can get UCAT over 3000 or have family or friends to help with work experience. Still make fantastic doctors in 5 years time.

@goodbyestranger

mumsneedwine it's clear that GANFYD and now Monkey are both absolutely steeped in admissions statistics and those are no doubt helpful up to a point. But it's worth asking the question why some schools have a long history of success whereas others seem to struggle. The advice given by the more successful schools must be fairly sound I'd have thought, on a common sense basis.

I think it is rather sad that you even have to ask that question. Some schools do not have the privilege and support available that it seems your school has in spades. Many schools are non-selective, have pupils with many widening participation flags and teachers who work hard to encourage ambition and excellence with little in the way of back up or facilities. You should consider yourself very fortunate that you have not come across issues like these and are naive enough to have to ask why some schools struggle more than others

@Theredjellybean

My dd got four out of four this year. Is off to Bristol her top choice. It is possible We didn't focus on stats and ratios etc. I encouraged her to choose based on where she felt she'd be happy and successful for five yrs. What course structure appealed to her. When she'd chosen she then looked at what each school particularly focused on in the application process and tried to cover this off. But its actually very generic... They want high ucat scores, varied work experience, a commitment to something.. Voluntary or paid work, and at interview there was huge emphasis on demonstrating resilience.. I am involved heavily in the regulation of medical education.. I can say choosing students with resilience and awareness of the pressure of the profession is the biggest focus accroos all med schools bar oxbridge at the moment

My son also got 4 out of 4. As did the last one who applied. It is not quite so difficult with perfect academics, a top percentile UCAT band 1 and access to work experience. Although many do not manage it, even with these advantages, especially this year. Unfortunately, not everyone is fortunate enough to be in this situation, and hence I see it as a good thing that there are med schools that do not want high UCAT/BMATs, some that do not place high importance on work experience and volunteering and those that accept lower academic grades. Many things are needed to make a good Dr and there is no one way for applicants to demonstrate that. All med schools are being encouraged to increase diversity and accept applicants from non-traditional backgrounds and anything I personally can do to help with this, I see only as a good thing. Those with imperfect stats, for whatever reason, should be supported to apply to places where their chances of success are highest and leave those privileged, fortunate few who are blessed with excellent results and schools who can offer advantage to pick and choose as they like

@GANFYD 😊 we try. Most of my candidates are first in family to go to Uni, large majority are PP and they have no access to external help. Thankfully I have got school to pay for Medify now and admissions people are fantastic at coming in to visit us now. I provide cake.
They don't have perfect stats but we still get them in. And they do very well once in too.
My lovely Oxford medic this year is a refugee who couldn't speak English 5 years ago. He is also quite a popular rap artist on YouTube (I do not understand a word he says but I'm v v old).

[quote mumsneedwine]@GANFYD 😊 we try. Most of my candidates are first in family to go to Uni, large majority are PP and they have no access to external help. Thankfully I have got school to pay for Medify now and admissions people are fantastic at coming in to visit us now. I provide cake.
They don't have perfect stats but we still get them in. And they do very well once in too.
My lovely Oxford medic this year is a refugee who couldn't speak English 5 years ago. He is also quite a popular rap artist on YouTube (I do not understand a word he says but I'm v v old). [/quote]
All credit to you and your hard work. Your students are lucky to have you. If I can ever help with anything, let me know (and cake sound a very acceptable reward!)

@GANFYD thank you. I make a mean pecan brioche 😊

[quote mumsneedwine]@GANFYD thank you. I make a mean pecan brioche 😊[/quote]
I am in the car!

@Theredjellybean your DD and GANFYD's DS are really the exception to the rule. This year there were 102,770 applications to medical school (28,690 candidates applying to up to 4 medical schools) and 19,870 offers, of which 11,690 were accepted. If I have interpreted the data correctly, a credible split (won't be quite right, but reasonable approximation) is:
5.2% of applicants got 4 offers
4.4% of applicants got 3 offers
3.5% of applicants got 2 offers
27.7% of applicants got 1 offer
59.3% of applicants got 0 offers