Languages at St Andrews

[Tenpastseven]

Does anyone have any experience of a languages degree (likely French and Spanish post A level) at St Andrews?

We had a look online and the information offered on the course looks far more sparse than on other Uni sites. Unless I’m just not looking properly.

tantamountto - if your daughter wanted to do three languages, she'd be fine getting two to a very good level prior to university and then picking one up at beginners' level. In most places she'd then be expected to spend the year abroad in the country of her third language. The very experience of the year abroad and the way it trains students linguistically, even without them knowing it, means that the other two languages don't tend to suffer too much. (Plus they usually finish in June of second year and don't go back to uni till late September 15 months later, so there's plenty of time for two summers living abroad on top of the university requirements.)

Thanks, Aker. I wonder whether students tend to spend the year abroad in just one country, or in two of them?
But regardless of the answer, things may change post-Brexit, as there will be far fewer options.

Some go for just one (but will often spend a summer in the other); some do two. It usually takes a little more than 5/6 months to get really fluent, so there’s a good argument for staying a good length of time.

Bloody Brexit!! I do hope that the year abroad remains viable. I think it will overall.

For two languages joint honours you normally spend a semester in each country. That leaves time to do work or an internship over the summer here. The year abroad does require work to be submitted to your home university and it’s not just about fluency or living abroad. It’s about doing what your university wants to get the credits. So you cannot normally say you won’t do a year abroad for joint honours in the two main languages. It’s part of the course and acquires credits.

Well we are back to just 3 on the list. DS has done a u-turn and decided not to put St Andrews. He seemed to think you had to do the French and Spanish WITH something when he looked closer and had to put the subject code down for school internal UCAS deadline. He also says it is too far away and too small.

Gah! How are you doing with all of it @NiamCinnOir @fabtasticmrpox any any others with dc planning to do languages?

@RainBow725 sorry missed you out. Just re-flocked through thread and was reminded you were part of the MFL ‘gang’

Flicked*

Doing a few virtual open days over the next few weeks. Manchester, Liverpool, Lancaster and maybe a few more to try and come up with a final choice. Lots to think about!

@Tenpastseven

Well we are back to just 3 on the list. DS has done a u-turn and decided not to put St Andrews. He seemed to think you had to do the French and Spanish WITH something when he looked closer and had to put the subject code down for school internal UCAS deadline. He also says it is too far away and too small.

Gah! How are you doing with all of it @NiamCinnOir @fabtasticmrpox any any others with dc planning to do languages?

All good here I think. She has 5 she's happy with - Oxford, Bristol, Edinburgh, Warwick and Cardiff . Edinburgh is the opposite end of the country but Dh is Scottish and half her relatives live there. School needs everything submitted by 30 September. She had an in depth chat with her tutor who is also her French teacher yesterday re personal statement which was massively helpful and she's meeting head of French tomorrow. I am considering paying for a French tutor just in case she gets an interview for Oxford and to make up for her missed language assistant lessons at school.

@Tenpastseven - we're a bit behind I think! DD has three definites - Oxford, Leeds and Bristol but is not sure about her other choices. Wavering between Sheffield, Birmingham, Exeter and St Andrews at the moment. She is plunged in 'mini mocks' and assessments until the end of the month, and until they're over won't have any predicted grades from school. She has a nearly final version draft of her personal statement, but is waiting for comments from school, and her tutor has written a reference but her subject teachers haven't yet. The 15 Oct deadline suddenly seems very close, and school haven't even mentioned their own internal deadline yet.

Where did your DS decide to apply for in the end as well as Cambridge?

Do you think we could report this thread and get the title changed to something like 'Applying for languages in 2021'? It isn't really a St Andrews thread any more :)

@fabtasticmrpox We have just organised a tutor too! We used a company called tutorful who I think are good, they have an app etc. He's working with a Spanish & French graduate who is spending half an hour on each.

tenpastseven thanks I've just had a look. I'm kicking myself for not thinking of a tutor back in March.

Just popping in to say that I've found this thread very interesting.

DC is a way off considering uni as just started secondary, but we chose this school because it does offer two languages to A level rather than just one. None of the others in the area do.

Just one thing that caught my eye -

The recruiters probably won’t care too much what your options were but lawyers like traditional courses snd evidence of reading and research. Translation doesn’t really facilitate this

I take exception at this, bigbradford. Reading and researching is precisely what translators excel at, they do it all day long! I should know .

@rainyinscotland

The problem with interpreting and translating is that both are very badly paid, as far as I can find out.

This, however, I have to agree with .

Ironic, ins't it, since languages are considered so hard schools are queuing up to drop them so they don't spoil their spots in the league tables. Nice to know dedication and hard work are appreciated by education and society as a whole

As you were, I would not want to put your DCs off becoming linguists . But do watch out for earning prospects!

Yes in hindsight I should have done that too @fabtasticmrpox

Welcome @stickygotstuck. Is that the reason that schools don't tend to do languages then? Somehow that passed me by. I thought it was just as a consequence of STEM subjects given more priority. Is there a reason languages are considered 'harder'? I know my eldest DS was allowed to drop languages pre-GCSE because he has dyslexia and languages just made his brain hurt but that's a particular case.

Thank you @Tenpastseven.

Frankly, I don't know. But that's what some teachers (uni and high school) said during a talk about the closure of whole departments well over 10 years ago, before the big push of STEM. It certainly made sense and it really resonated with me.

Let's put it this way - I'd put money on it being an contributing factor.

The nationalistic arrogance and short-sightedness of successive Education Departments were also mentioned. Also a bullseye I'd say!

Glasgow University is renowned for its Modern Languages Dept ... highly recommend it.
(Graduate from there )

Bugger. DD is learning French at home but taking the exam at school. Now the school are saying that there may be no exams this summer (again), in which case she'll be stuffed as they aren't able to observe her in lessons to give a recommended grade, so she'd get nothing.
So I'm wondering about moving her onto the Delf - maybe the B2 level exam. Has anyone got any experience of it or of how a university might respond?

sorry @fuffit I don't know anything about that but very impressive that DD is doing an extra subject at home.

Translation is woefully badly paid, it’s true, but languages graduates do well in high-paid jobs overall. The Sunday Times ran a survey and languages commanded better salaries than pretty much any other Arts subject. Germs in, particularly, appears to be lucrative for some reason.

German not germs ffs.

It may be that translation floats the boat of some grads but it’s true that law firms won’t be overly bothered with it. It’s not original research and it’s not your own words! It’s someone else’s. It’s simply not the same skill as research, sifting through evidence or writing position statements from scratch. Hence the difference in pay one suspects. That’s not to say translation isn’t worthy but it’s not a stepping stone to many other careers. So it depends what the MFL grad actually wants.

Also don’t forget universities offer management and MFL, Law and MFL etc etc. Some well paid grads have not just studied a single MFL. Other studies say MFL grads don’t earn a premium. They don’t if they translate. If they convert to law or have a business/management/economics degree as well, that’s a different scenario.

@Guymere

It may be that translation floats the boat of some grads but it’s true that law firms won’t be overly bothered with it. It’s not original research and it’s not your own words! It’s someone else’s. It’s simply not the same skill as research, sifting through evidence or writing position statements from scratch. Hence the difference in pay one suspects. That’s not to say translation isn’t worthy but it’s not a stepping stone to many other careers. So it depends what the MFL grad actually wants.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Is any research in the legal field original research? Doesn't it mostly involve of trawling through massive piles of documents someone else has written?

It's not a case of 'floating your boat'. It's a case of beig good at something not everybody is good at. It is a highly skilled, extremely undervalued profession. And underpaid.

I’m not saying it’s not skilled but it’s not something that’s widely required in the modern world. You might value it but others don’t. That’s why it’s badly paid I’m afraid.

Of course students do what they are good at, but just because you study MFL, it doesn’t follow grads have to use their languages in their jobs. As they have degrees in one or more languages which have followed an academic syllabus in most instances, MFL grads have a wide field of well paid jobs open to them. Choosing a poorly paid one isn’t what floats the boat of many grads! They want a job that they like, has obvious career progression and might even pay well.

I think you completely misunderstand the jobs of solicitors and barristers too! Yes, others might have determined the “law” but interpretation and nuanced legal argument citing case law etc is not the same as translation. However you could give law a go and see how you get on! Of the people o know who have tried translation, most have found it soul destroying! One other, my BIL, lives like a hermit! Translating text books!