Languages at St Andrews

[Tenpastseven]

Does anyone have any experience of a languages degree (likely French and Spanish post A level) at St Andrews?

We had a look online and the information offered on the course looks far more sparse than on other Uni sites. Unless I’m just not looking properly.

Why does it require more energy than teaching other subjects?
DC is learning French, Spanish and German, and would probably go for French and Spanish at university.

@Fozzleyplum i should warn you that St Andrews is notorius for not making offers until really late, my DS didn't hear until March 20th. Caveat: his was a very oversubscribed subject.

I teach MFL and offer German, Spanish and French. I can only teach French up to GCSE but that's usually fine as there are often French specialists in a school. I love it, but you do need to be prepared to put up with kids telling you there is no point to your subject as they are never going to go to France etc. It takes a lot of energy as we change activities a lot in the lesson and play games etc. Sorry for the derail!

@wbeezer DS1 has checked his old emails. His UCAS application in 2019 went in on 4th January and his offer came through on 19th February, so slower than the other universities on his UCAS application. DS2 will apply for Classics in October, at the same time that he applies to Oxford. Does anyone have experience of offer times in those circumstances?

Thank you Tad.

DD was an October application. Two offered really quickly, by the end of October, as I recall. Durham was much later in March. Cannot remember Bristol but Oxford was just before Christmas holidays. You really cannot read anything into when other students get offers though. It varies from subject to subject and some might even read the PS. It doesn’t matter if you have to wait a bit. I don’t actually think you can read anything into it. You just have to sit tight.

I thought they didnt look at the applications until after the deadline but it was two and a half years ago so I'm not 100% on that. I kept an eye on The Student Room St Andrews Applicants thread to see when other people got offers, DS was calmer about the whole thing than i was.

The Scottish quota system does hold things up a bit sometimes or certainly did with friends’ dcs applying to Edinburgh this year.

Durham and Warwick are notorious for hanging about. On the uni application thread for this year, Warwick and Durham were the ones lots of people were waiting on for arts subjects when STEM got offers really fast. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

That's probably right. We'd been warned that Durham keeps you waiting, but DS's offer came in almost immediately. DS2 knows his first choices, but is less sure about 2 of the other 3, not least because the opportunity to visit has been so limited.

DS did apply to one of the most popular humanities and he was a Scottish applicant so that might have made it take even longer. I did begin to wonder if he was in the maybe pile but it worked out in the end.

Offers definitely come out way before the deadline for applications. Many Oxbridge applicants do apply to the other 4 at the same time and it’s not unusual to get very quick offers. I don’t think this has ever been any different although it mystifies me how students can be compared when some don’t apply until January. I guess any university receiving excellent applicants in October probably knows where else they have applied and they offer based on quality of applicant.

It can be a bit dispiriting to wait when others get quick offers but it’s not likely MFL students won’t get offers with sensible applications and choices. Others such as vets and medics can be disappointed.

Hi, interesting thread - not relevant for me as yet, as my DC are not quite at uni stage as yet, but as a language graduate many moons ago, it's interesting to read which depts are rated now. Although depressing to note the demise of languages in school, which is backed up by my own open day experiences recently.

Interested that Bath hasn't yet had a mention, and wondered if it might be worth a look for those who are looking. It was my first choice but I turned it down when I got an Oxbridge offer I felt I should accept. I really enjoyed my time there, particularly the ab initio language I studied, but have always felt I'd have been a better linguist had I gone to Bath. The year abroad rectified any deficiencies in language teaching and fortunately I enjoyed the literature element, but the course at Bath had a very strong language element and still seems to.

Just a thought!

Bath isn’t noted for its language dept. They only do two joint honours with French (German or Spanish) and its language offerings are quite limited. Lots of ab initio though. I do wonder if Bath students see MFL as an add on to business courses at which Bath excels.

In fact (now I’ve looked) it makes a point that the courses suit business and look at politics and culture but no mention of literature and plays or art. No Japanese but they do Mandarin. No Portuguese though. It’s a fairly niche offering but definitely has a business slant.

Well reading the guardian rankings has confused the hell out of me now. Can we not rely on league tables at all? With no open days, how can one be expected to sort the wheat from the chaff? Can we draw up a top 20 list here for MFL/MML?

Oxford
Cambridge
St Andrews
Birmingham
Bristol
Newcastle
Lancaster
Durham
Warwick
Glasgow
Bath
Southampton
Leeds
Exeter

What about Nottingham? Edinburgh? Any good? Any others I’ve forgotten?

I’m not a fan of The Guardian rankings. They tend to skew towards universities that are not ranked highly elsewhere and seem to like universities that have less self study and more face to face teaching. Their conclusions can look a bit odd and don’t necessarily reflect what employers think.

Add in UCL, Leeds, York, Sheffield, Manchester and Kings London (Nothing wrong with any of these). The top rank is the usual suspects. I’m not sure employers really know which MFL course is considered best, better or merely good! Mostly, they don’t need to.

I did say in previous posts, choice really depends on what you want to do afterwards.
It also depends on what languages you want to study, and how much of a self starter you are and what type of study areas/options are important.

If it’s Law you can discard a few of those mentioned. If it’s translation all will be fine. Teaching ditto. It’s not ideal to be forensic in this. Many students go into careers where MFL is the vehicle - eg into the civil service. The language may never be used but the quality of your study, transferable skills and your intellect is what matters. So look at future career, course content, opportunities abroad and quality of degree as recognised by employers in your chosen field. If you are not intending to use the languages then most grad schemes require you to have other skills. Concentrate on getting them. There is competition for many careers and many employers won’t take you solely because you have studied French or Czech. They even recruit people from these countries if they need to.

So university for MFL students won’t matter too much but campus vs city, quality of university overall and what they course covers (Bath is very different to Oxford) should be in the mix. MFL does mean a student has ability in languages but often more is needed to succeed when competing for many jobs.

Obviously ignoring the side issue of law , if anyone has slightly lower academic results , Portsmouth and Bangor have excellent reputations for their MFL courses. The ones in your list are all AAA + type institutions (albeit they may actually accede to lower) so not accessible to many/all.
You haven't got Manchester or Liverpool. Pretty sure Liverpool has a very innovative languages dept.
Edinburgh never does well in league tables for MFL or English. No idea why but it has been the case for a while now. League tables aside , Heriot Watt , Stirling and Strathclyde all have better reputations for languages degrees than Edinburgh, although that may be counterbalanced in some (but not many!) fields by the weight of having an 'Edinburgh degree').

The Guardian List is also quite different form last year's! So I guess you need a 5 year trend . Not sure if the Guardian shows that but it can be googled.

I'd be more concerned about cuts and staffing for Languages.

Hull, for example, used to be highly regarded for Languages. It then cut all tis languages course a few years ago (which then showed up a sa plummet down league tables) . After vigorous protest, it has restored its degrees, with a slightly different focus and is now edging back up again!

Sadly, such stories are not unique : there are fewer universities to choose from than there would be if one was studying, say, maths. I reckon the really quite poor institutions don't offer at all, so, in that sense, anywhere is a relatively safe choice.

Your list is missing Aberystwyth, btw. Certainly top 25, anyway.

I'm a lawyer with an MFL degree and would strongly disagree with the suggestion that Herriot Watt and Strathclyde will be better regarded than Edinburgh. Not a chance, maybe unless you want to go into some sort of specific technical translation role. An Edinburgh degree is far better for law or general grad schemes.

Edinburgh does a traditional MFL degree, quite literature heavy.

I did say law aside (first sentence).

The Guardian league table is not very helpful for languages. Arguably, the Times one is annoying because it splits everything down into separate languages. However, the Guardian one includes linguistics - and some of the degrees at the top end of their league table are linguistics degrees, not MFL!

Fair enough Piggy! There are plenty of decent options. I'm sure the OP's son will be able to find something suitable that he likes and good luck to him.

My DF is a senior lecturer at Strathclyde, so you accidentally activated my vicarious chip on his shoulder!

Thanks to all the posters who have shared experiences of their dc applying for MFL in previous years, it’s really helpful. Seems like they’re a small band and getting smaller every year. The disregard for MFLs in most state schools is depressing. Languages are truly brain-stretching IME and equip students with such sound skills, I can’t understand why they aren’t more valued. Dd’s school is a maths and science specialist state school and they’ve been saying the STEM/girls in STEM mantra for So long now that everything else seems drowned out.

@Tenpastseven, what about UCL and Sheffield for your list? Dd is tryjing to compare course content with the universities she’s considering applying for, but it’s difficult as they’re variable about how much information is available on their websites. She might email a couple of departments with specific questions when she gets that far. She’s also comparing how the year abroad is handle between the different units. She’s applying for joint honours, so it varies quite a lot.

With regards Oxbridge applications, I Guess the process can seem brutal because it feels like a series of hoops to jump through with a lot of waiting and wondering in between - writing the ‘perfect’ personal statement, trying to get school onboard with writing the reference, dealing with the early submission deadline, preparing and practising for the admission tests, deciding which written work to submit, waiting to hear about interview or not, waiting for offer or not, waiting to see if grades are met or not. It does all seems potentially quite bruising to me, but I think the key is to treat Oxbridge as one choice among five, not to get too invested in it if possible, and to carefully research and get excited about the other choices.

I said Sheffield and UCL are fine earlier. Definitely on lists! No these universities do not all require AAA for MFL! Oxbridge yes bit others, as helpfully listed by an earlier poster, are not. I haven’t looked at UCL snd Durham but a few years ago they were AAB. With MFL you can punch above your weight snd it’s not as competitive as say English or History.

In fact it’s always worth adding in a MFL to something like Politics and History if you can. Universities want linguists and adding in a language gives students an edge on very competitive courses.

Yes: Edinburgh MFL degree is better than some but not necessarily St Andrews.