University 2020 :8: Use the CAGs, don’t use the CAGs...

[MillicentMartha]

...if you can use the mocks, then use the mocks but not if they're higher than the CAGs.

And hopefully on to university!

Old thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3993327-University-2020-7-Results-tombola-roll-up-roll-up-pick-a-prize?pg=39

[quote Monkey2001]Very good article about the validity of CAGs and exams generally here. We really need a complete overhaul - exams have remained largely unchanged for decades whilst the working world is completely different from how it was 30 years ago. Added to this, exams are not marked consistently in a normal year so people put their trust in a system which is usually wrong 25% of the time.

www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/08/18/cags-rule-ok/[/quote]
Personally I think the entire English secondary school system needs fundamental reform. We've had the regular changes every few years but they're all re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic and never addressing the fundamental problems of an education system that's still basically the same as it was decades ago, whilst the World around it has changed beyond all recognition. We need some strong leaders who are capable of real change over a decade or so to give us an education system fit for the modern World.

It is a right old mess. In my day hardly anyone got an A. Neighbours stopped me in the street with the best results in the school (AAB) ( no A stars then nor for my daughters in their day either for A level ) where most people did not even go to university and suggested I applied to Oxbridge in a year out (I didn't bother). However pupils can only operate under the system they are presented with - I think will ultimately pan out and hopefully some will resit this Autumn and next year will be just about okay and real exams will be taken. it is a horrible year to have been due to do A levels.

Jobs - A levels are still only one part of why/how people get jobs. I don’t think I’ve ever taken someone on purely due to their A level grades. Let’s not panic.

DD would in real life probably have dropped a grade on whichever paper fell on Period Hell day. That’s what happened to her GCSEs, anyway.

But she’s entirely capable of each of her final grades when not doubled up in pain. Should she have missed out to reflect the more unfortunate reality? Dunno.

Has anyone who has spoken to universities with their new CAGs today had their place confirmed yet?

DC is still waiting for a decision. Anyone in the same boat?

Dd2s French grade was basically down to how many native speakers took the exam. Her marks would have been the same anyway. That’s something that needs sorting. GCSE too.

Good luck, Bowbridge. I know of a few in a similar position. Some universities seem to be really struggling with how to deal with the unexpected influx and how to treat people fairly.

@Gymntonic has your FE college had issues with BTEC's? Particularly in relation to grades given for un sat exam units? I am desperately trying to connect with centres/individuals who have been downgraded and in particular awarded ridiculous grades for exam units which were not sat in May.

[quote TheTeenageYears]@Gymntonic has your FE college had issues with BTEC's? Particularly in relation to grades given for un sat exam units? I am desperately trying to connect with centres/individuals who have been downgraded and in particular awarded ridiculous grades for exam units which were not sat in May.[/quote]
You are right about the ridiculous grades for the exams but they have cleverly worded their statement. Schools were only asked to give a CAG for internal assessments and not for the exams.Those grades were decided by the exam board using goodness knows what process. So when they say only 0.5% of CAGs were downgraded then they might be accurate but there will be a lot more students who didn't get the grade they deserved due to the lowering of the exam grades. For example a student could have been given their CAG grade but the exam grades them as a pass for the exam would likely lower the overall grade. I worry that reverting to CAGs won't resolve the downgrading of results for Btec students. I hope someone who understands the process challenges this.

@TheTeenageYears I don't know I'm sorry. They are still working on resolving outcomes for BTec students. Is there anything here useful for you www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/18/btec-results-now-engulfed-in-exam-results-algorithm-fiasco?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Absolutely the A level and university application systems are not fit for purpose especially as most universities rely solely on A level grades these days.
And I'm pretty sure that the HE sector can cope with 40% top grades. They regularly accept lower grades in clearing.
I'm hoping that they've learnt even more about online learning recently and can deliver quality to expanded numbers
@Bowbridge DD has had communication from her first choice saying when they will honour offers but may well struggle with those subject to professional caps - including medicine, dentistry, nursing, social work and accountancy degree apprenticeships. They hadn't received the CAGs from UCAS though.

Are you in Twitter @TheTeenageYears? It's gathering momentum but if your not sure that your particular message has got across both Jo Maugham and Andy Burnham are raging on the issues around BTecs

Hi all
Please indulge me and let me rant a bit! It's the only safe space on social media where I won't be accused of boasting and first world problems
DS had Durham firmed at A*AA
York as insurance at AAA
Both to study PPE

He was awarded A*BB. Durham immediately said no but York said yes, allocated him a fabulous college and have been really welcoming. He paid his deposit on Sunday

CAGs from school this morning A*AA

He rang Durham, who said they weren't sure how it was going to pan out but they'd confirm whether he had a place by 7th Sept

He's happy to wait til then, even though it might be a deferred place, or a college he doesn't like or even accommodation out of college. He will always have regrets of "what if" if he doesn't wait and see what they say. My heart says go to York! But he's just like DH, who says he'd wait too. I also think it's being quite rude and unfair to York. But maybe manners are off the table right now?

I feel irrationally stressed and annoyed by all this and am sitting in a field with my book while DS2 (GCSEs!!) is at football training. I want to scream 😱

Sorry. As you were

Argh stupid formatting
Durham A^AA
York AAA
Awarded A^BB
CAGs A^AA

@TheTeenageYears

Letter here from Gav to MPs which includes some info about BTECs

twitter.com/halfon4harlowMP/status/1295762229967691777

Thanks @Gymntonic and @ThankyouPeter I am so unbelievably frustrated. I called Pearson this afternoon after that statement was put out. They make absolutely no reference to BTEC's which have exam units which is just ridiculous. They tried to tell me the CAG's were used for exam units which is just blatantly untrue. I am very much looking to challenge the system rather than just my son's grades because I don't think the school have acted completely in his best interests in the little info they were asked to provide. How someone can be awarded two NP grades for exam units when last years exam units were a P and a M and the rest of his grades were 4 x D and 4 x M plus they down graded an additional 2 centre assessed D's to P's. I am not an avid Twitter user but have been using since the no show of grades on Thursday. BTEC are trying to say there is no similarity between the awarding of A Levels/GCSE's and BTEC's because most units were already completed but if there were exams unsat all the ranking and algorithm's used to generate grades are actually worse because there were no CAG's for those units.

@TerfTerfTerf I get your stress. Congratulations to your boy and you should be enjoying complete joy but it's all so stressful. I also thought York was a fantastic warm university and was rightly miffed when DD objected to the course.
Was something more than miffed when Durham attempted to "adjust her" from the science subject she applied for, to ... anthropology. Took her a day or so to stop feeling flattered that they wanted her and to start feeling angry and patronised.
So yes, it's his choice and there's a lot of noise and status around Durham... but I'm not sure it's the place it was, or would like you to think it is.

@TheTeenageYears contact your MP. Tweet Jo Maugham/ Good Law Project and explain that not all BTecs are the same.

I totally agree with you. None of the information they have released deals with the exam grades and yes, they have given you incorrect information about the exams being CAGs. They definitely weren't. They had their own procedure to establish the exam grades and it looks like this is what has resulted in a lot of students being downgraded. Even if they give everyone their CAG grade for the internal units I don't think it will be enough. They should look at a student's previous exam grade and assume they would have achieved the same in the second exam module. That is the only fair way to deal with the exam aspect in my opinion.

Sorry my last was for @TheTeenageYears

Still no grades. The head of 6th form rang my son, has told him that he doesn't have the grades for the standard offer at his firm but she is ringing them to see what she can do. Am I using the right logic that if it was an absolute no then she would have told him so?

@TerfTerfTerf That’s gutting for you - and your boy. Is there anything he fancies doing for a Gap if Durham offer for 2021?

@Lightuptheroom what does she think she can do that he can't, if only she'd hand over the grades? Why would the university even talk to her? Surely if they can offer him a place they'll be in touch. School need to hand over the grades and he can start looking to see what might be on offer there and elsewhere.
I'd be wondering what they're trying to hide. Have they given him a grade below the tracking grades they'd reported to you, for example?

@Gymntonic exactly my thoughts! They didn't offer until April - hedging bets I guess and he was obviously not an A lister! Too niche and trying to prove a point is my feeling. But my in-laws met there, so he feels a family tie 
It's also a long way away, and I've got loads of friends near York for fun weekends 

@KingscoteStaff he's never wanted to do a gap year and only now considering it... what is there to do?? Not much abroad, and I'm worried he'll spend yet another 12 months on his arse and will have totally forgotten how to learn by Sep 21. He's clever but not exactly proactive and did need to work for those grades

@Lightuptheroom

Still no grades. The head of 6th form rang my son, has told him that he doesn't have the grades for the standard offer at his firm but she is ringing them to see what she can do. Am I using the right logic that if it was an absolute no then she would have told him so?

WTF? Sounds as if they assessed him much lower than they said and don't want to admit it. Can you go legal on them? Local paper? Solicitor letter before action?

I feel like some kind of error has been made. DS has contacted the uni himself and they have asked for the grades! It's leading me to think there has been the sort of error you describe @Gymntonic