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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

A levels - am going crazy!

105 replies

RedHotMummy · 12/08/2020 04:41

Using mock results for A levels? This is the last straw for my sanity. I appreciate that the government is trying to add a safety net by allowing mock results to be used for university entry but really, does this help?

There is so much wrong with this - mocks (the clue is in the title) are final results minus 4 months of slaving like a dog. They are internal exams, typically have only 1 paper (rather than 2 or 3 or 4, meaning the effect of one bad paper is amplified) and rarely cover the whole syllabus. There is no standardisation of marking across schools and grades typically given on % boundaries not a national bell curve. We had an internal bell curve on a small cohort which is the worst of both worlds. But I didn't challenge 75% being a B because, hey, it's a mock. It could now stop my daughter going to uni.

Papers are often marked to incentivise (time honoured kick-up approach) and, in my experience, some genders fare far better in the real exam than they did in mocks. Presumably all of this contributes to why unis don't look at mocks as an indicator.

As for the process, how do students get these mock grades to their unis and UCAS? Via Ofqual? How long will it take? Can papers be remarked or appealed? And for the coming Y13, watch the parents fight for good results incase this happens again. All of this when schools are supposed to be spending their energies focussing on opening this term.

As for unis, will they hold places open whilst all of this is going on as they have been asked to? Supposing your mocks get you into your insurance choice but not your firm or you don't make either: do both institutions have to keep both the places for you, pending the appeal? That means neither goes into clearing, which makes that process a joke. Then in the coming academic year, there is a minimum of one and possibly two unfilled spaces. A financial disaster for them, just as the predicted numbers of lucrative international students are unsure.

All this just as as Scottish results were upgraded, so it isn't a level playing field for those looking to go to a Scottish uni or competing for spaces with a Scottish student. On a political level, this could be canny move by Nichola S to either force the government's hand or effectively bolster support for the SNP (we'll be fair to your children').

Ofqual want to maintain the integrity of these examinations. Given the news on job losses,

Or is this a political move to pave the way for a move to CAG whilst maintaining the narrative that teachers ruined the process? Meaning we'll get CAGs next week too and it's a smorgasbord of possible results from which to pick and choose.

I am not saying CAGs are perfect or that there is an easy answer. But much of this mess was avoidable. I am no statistician or computer nerd but to have a model that incorporated not only data for the institution but also the individual (historical and predictive - mocks, GCSE results, predicted grades, CAGs) when such info is easily available doesn't seem beyond the wit of man.

Rant over.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 12/08/2020 04:43

It’s an absolute mess. Bungling upon bungling upon bungling.

PurpleDaisies · 12/08/2020 04:47

All this just as as Scottish results were upgraded, so it isn't a level playing field for those looking to go to a Scottish uni or competing for spaces with a Scottish student.

The Scottish results aren’t even a level playing field for students in Scotland. They penalise schools who did not inflate grades.

surreygoldfish · 12/08/2020 05:32

What a mess. As above this penalises any school that hasn’t inflated predicted grades. This is just dreadful on the eve of results day. Clearly with the mass inflation of exam grades teachers predictions in isolation aren’t the right answer ..... talk about move the goal posts at the last minute. High performing schools who have not inflated grades will be feeling sick right now.....what a joke

NewIdeasToday · 12/08/2020 05:46

It is a mess. Many universities will be flexible in terms of grades as they understand the position of applicants. What grades does your daughter need?

surreygoldfish · 12/08/2020 05:56

Here DS needs AAA but he’d have backed himself to get higher - exceeded GCSE predictions. It’s such a depressing way to finish school. We’re not in normal times but the monumental bungling of this and goal post moving at the last minute is outrageous.

RedHotMummy · 12/08/2020 06:25

Purple Daisy: you're right - I should have said it isn't a level playing field for those competing for places against those students in Scotland whose grades have been increased by the recent decision.

OP posts:
Meercat2 · 12/08/2020 06:28

I feel so sorry for this year group. Indeed a depressing way to finish your school years. And to finish with so much uncertainty. My DS was granted extra exam time in his written exams very late. After predicted grades came out, and after Mocks. The process and assessments for that took so long. 25% extra time in all his subjects, and I really fear this will not be reflected in his grades now. What a diabetic mess for everyone.
I can't imagine the universities are happy either.

IlanaWexler · 12/08/2020 06:32

At least students are more likely to take mock exams seriously moving forward (only a small silver lining, I know)

MrsMcMuffins · 12/08/2020 06:43

In my child’s schools mocks are reviewed and corrected by peers so teachers don’t even bother looking at the papers. Excellent if their future is decided by another 17 year old.

catnidge · 12/08/2020 06:44

It's such a mess, why aren't we doing the same as Scotland to ensure a more level field?
My DC is a last minute worker so really upped his gcse's from mock to actual and would have done the same with A levels. I'm not looking forward to tomorrow...
Good luck to everyone who has DC getting results tomorrow.

PurpleDaisies · 12/08/2020 06:45

It's such a mess, why aren't we doing the same as Scotland to ensure a more level field?

Scotland hadn’t made their playing field more level. They’ve just changed which students have been favoured.

sonicbook · 12/08/2020 06:46

Most schools in Scotland used their prelims (mocks) to inform their estimates to be fair. How did you guys put together your estimates? What evidence did you use?

Miriel · 12/08/2020 06:53

I completely agree with you about this being a total mess, but - "some genders" typically do better at exams tham mocks in your experience?

Do you mean boys? Or girls?

hamstersarse · 12/08/2020 07:02

It’s a shambles. Unnecessarily shambolic.

I’m just hoping unis have made their decisions despite these meaningless results.

How they thought they could ever be fair with exam grades when there have been no exams is beyond me. They are exams for a reason, not just some shitty algorithm that takes no account for individual variance.

I don’t know what else to say other than whatever ‘comes out’ tomorrow is obvious bollocks to all. Even if students get their places, it’s still bollocks

AprilLady · 12/08/2020 07:05

Agree with all of this. Scotland’s last minute change of decision is ridiculous - as previous posters have said, it heavily penalises the teachers and pupils whose grades weren’t inflated; the original scaled marks were already giving many pupils the benefit of the doubt since they were overall significantly higher than the previous year. Changing the rules in retrospect is highly unfair.

Deciding now to use mocks is equally ill-conceived. In my DC’s school these are done very early (November) and marked deliberately quite meanly to incentivise, so most students are expected to go up one to two grades from these in the actual exams (and usually do).

The main criticism of the original system is that its unfair on the ( small number of) very highly performing students in poorer schools. I do have some sympathy with this. Surely all that was needed though to sort that out for A level pupils, was to also reference GCSE results in the process? Less good but still possible, would be to have used Year 6 SATS for this year’s GCSE students (this year’s cohort were still on the old levels system which would have worked okay)

The new way of doing things really downgrades the value of the top marks for those students genuinely deserving of them. That said, in reality this was a no win situation, anything other than full exams at some point was going to result in a somewhat random outcome.

Rant over!

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 08:08

@sonicbook I don’t know for definite but ‘mocks’ ( certainly for A level) were only one small part. My ds has been doing questions under exam conditions every six weeks as they have ‘testing week’ , they have coursework ( slaved over but not moderated by exam boards🙁) , their past exam performance etc etc .

catnidge · 12/08/2020 08:26

Were GCSE results used in the calculation of the A level grades at all?
@PurpleDaisies, you are right it wouldn't really level the playing field just change it.
My older children were actaully under predicted in their grades. Their school gives a presentation where you're basically told they won't over predict. I'm surprised that so many schools over predict!

Sexnotgender · 12/08/2020 08:31

Using mocks isn’t a great solution. For example my daughters maths teacher deliberately set a horrendous maths mock to give them a ‘fright’, the average mark was 34%, my daughter failed it. Yet consistently gets 75/80% in other assessments set across the year.
It’s all just shit. I feel so sorry for all the young people affected.

itsamockery · 12/08/2020 08:41

Yes OP. Totally agree with all you points. They have given it the snazzy name of “triple lock” in the hope that people will think this is a great strategy.

Er no.

I do wonder about GW (as in serious concerns). How can he not know that mocks are totally variable between schools. Some schools take them seriously, as if they were the real thing. Some mocks are just tested like as class test and peer marked! Some schools mark super-harshly so as not to encourage complacency. Some students never even get a mock result. Some mocks are in December / January - others after March - or there might be several mock exams, so take your pick! It’s just a joke. Has GW ever visited a school??

BluebellsGreenbells · 12/08/2020 08:44

DD school have only 1 years history with a few of the exam boards so new to the curriculum.

Their computer system didn’t take this into account and most have been graded a U

It’s being looked into

Wbeezer · 12/08/2020 08:53

@RedHotMummy just lost a long post basically explaining that theres no need to worry about competing for places at Scottish unis as there is a very strict quota of places for Scottish students at unis up here but not for rest of UK students, as a result theres generally a higher entry tariff for local students than RUK ones, especially for popular courses, there are effectively two separate "pots" of places. Our controversial free uni places are effectively rationed which is a whole other story...
Theyll be welcoming any fee paying students with open arms over the next couple of years because they'll need the money, if necessary they'll drop the entry tariff for A level candidates and raise it for Highers as that is what they do already to a lesser degree.
I could explain why the advantage for Scottish students applying south of the border is likely to be small but i think I've said enough to be going on with, very few apply anyway for various reasons.

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 08:59

@Wbeezer I thought the Scottish Gov has said that they are releasing funding for more Scottish places?

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 09:00

@BluebellsGreenbells that sounds dreadful, have they already publicised this? I hope that they can get it sorted out

kgal · 12/08/2020 09:01

I actually thought this was good news as grades awarded will be no lower than mock results which was part of the issue in Scotland? Happy to be corrected by those more in the know ...

No vested interest as have no DC in year 11, but do have a DD doing GCSEs next year which is a worry in itself!

Coffeeandbeans · 12/08/2020 09:02

My child’s school has said they will release the teacher assessment grades too. So that means my child will have 3 sets of results. Just an absolute mess and at the last minute too.

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