Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

A levels - am going crazy!

105 replies

RedHotMummy · 12/08/2020 04:41

Using mock results for A levels? This is the last straw for my sanity. I appreciate that the government is trying to add a safety net by allowing mock results to be used for university entry but really, does this help?

There is so much wrong with this - mocks (the clue is in the title) are final results minus 4 months of slaving like a dog. They are internal exams, typically have only 1 paper (rather than 2 or 3 or 4, meaning the effect of one bad paper is amplified) and rarely cover the whole syllabus. There is no standardisation of marking across schools and grades typically given on % boundaries not a national bell curve. We had an internal bell curve on a small cohort which is the worst of both worlds. But I didn't challenge 75% being a B because, hey, it's a mock. It could now stop my daughter going to uni.

Papers are often marked to incentivise (time honoured kick-up approach) and, in my experience, some genders fare far better in the real exam than they did in mocks. Presumably all of this contributes to why unis don't look at mocks as an indicator.

As for the process, how do students get these mock grades to their unis and UCAS? Via Ofqual? How long will it take? Can papers be remarked or appealed? And for the coming Y13, watch the parents fight for good results incase this happens again. All of this when schools are supposed to be spending their energies focussing on opening this term.

As for unis, will they hold places open whilst all of this is going on as they have been asked to? Supposing your mocks get you into your insurance choice but not your firm or you don't make either: do both institutions have to keep both the places for you, pending the appeal? That means neither goes into clearing, which makes that process a joke. Then in the coming academic year, there is a minimum of one and possibly two unfilled spaces. A financial disaster for them, just as the predicted numbers of lucrative international students are unsure.

All this just as as Scottish results were upgraded, so it isn't a level playing field for those looking to go to a Scottish uni or competing for spaces with a Scottish student. On a political level, this could be canny move by Nichola S to either force the government's hand or effectively bolster support for the SNP (we'll be fair to your children').

Ofqual want to maintain the integrity of these examinations. Given the news on job losses,

Or is this a political move to pave the way for a move to CAG whilst maintaining the narrative that teachers ruined the process? Meaning we'll get CAGs next week too and it's a smorgasbord of possible results from which to pick and choose.

I am not saying CAGs are perfect or that there is an easy answer. But much of this mess was avoidable. I am no statistician or computer nerd but to have a model that incorporated not only data for the institution but also the individual (historical and predictive - mocks, GCSE results, predicted grades, CAGs) when such info is easily available doesn't seem beyond the wit of man.

Rant over.

OP posts:
BluebellsGreenbells · 12/08/2020 09:03

Peaseblossom22

It’s being discussed later today with our education minister and heads of schools.

I’ll keep you informed

Ihopeyourcakeisshit · 12/08/2020 09:05

@MrsMcMuffins Seriously the mocks are peer marked at your dc's school?

JacobReesMogadishu · 12/08/2020 09:20

As a lecturer I want to know if ucas have the mock results to hand for tomorrow morning. I need to know how many applicants have met their grades or we can't offer anything via clearing. Or not on the day anyway.

RedHotMummy · 12/08/2020 09:21

@Wbeezer - thank you for the explanation - it's really helpful. So for the children who live in Scotland and who are doing A levels, they are still facing an issue?

OP posts:
Wbeezer · 12/08/2020 09:43

Yes, they would be at a disadvantage but they would be a very small number as its only really some private boarding schools that offer them and we don't have many of them.

titchy · 12/08/2020 09:47

I’m just hoping unis have made their decisions despite these meaningless results.

Yep decisions already made - they have to be back at UCAS in time for them to update track by the end of today (to then go live first thing tomorrow).

So unis everywhere now frantically scrabbling round re-looking at those they've rejected and wondering whether to advise them to appeal. Balanced against the significant financial risk of then over-recruiting through clearing then having to honour shedloads of mock grades.

mummymeister · 12/08/2020 09:54

I feel so sorry for this current cohort. they were the new GCSE guinea pigs. they didnt get AS levels and were the guinea pigs for the new A levels. Now this. My DC's school always mark mocks really harshly - they think its doing the students a good turn by giving them a kick up the backside. they even say to parents and pupils that they do this to create a worst case scenario. It also means some less able students drop subjects that would otherwise make their grades look bad. Some of my DC's friends dropped A levels after the mocks and are now kicking themselves. Lets hope they rethink this ridiculous policy at DC's school. I am just so bloody cross about this on so many levels. what an absolute shit storm this is for these young people.

Wbeezer · 12/08/2020 09:57

@Peaseblossom22 yes they have but we'll have to see whether they release enough and where they are allocated, if the extra numbers of places are in direct proportion to the extra A grades for example the status quo re entry tariffs will stay the same as in more usual years and it will not affect RUK applicants, i dont think they'll cut the number of RUK places because they expand Scottish places because £££.
I was taking the opportunity to do a wee bit of education about the the fact that our free places scheme has some disadvantages (see also our much smaller maintenance loans).

bbn81 · 12/08/2020 10:26

I do think this is better, it will stop students getting less than their mock results which is what happened to the pupil in Scotland who has been all over the media. It will also stopp grades being over inflated bt teachers. This will have happened in some way. If exam grades had increased by 20% there would have been an outcry that the exams were too easy. But it is OK for teacher predictions give results that are 20% higher - i don't think so but this seems to be the case in Scotland.

For those who are worried about university entrance I have seen students get first choice places with grades that were 2 lower than asked for (offer needed an A, student got C). Universities need students and will be flexible anyway.

slug · 12/08/2020 10:28

It looks as if UK students have 3 options, mocks, exam boards, or resits. Whichever is higher.

This has caused us great relief. DD is in the position of being in a very small 6th form (10 students taking A levels) Very new (only second year of A levels) In an area of social deprivation and being of a calibre they had simply never seen before. She fell into all the data holes.

We were worried that, despite passing the Cambridge entrance exam and making the cut to be invited for an interview, and despite gaining AAA* in her January mocks without even having finished the syllabus, she would not get the AAB she needed to go to a Scottish University.

So it's happy days for us.

Hercwasonaroll · 12/08/2020 10:29

@BluebellsGreenbells Is that in Scotland?

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 10:33

@slug without wishing to be depressing ,you will not be able to just have the mock grade substituted. Rather you can use the mock grade as part of your grounds for appeal.

TheFallenMadonna · 12/08/2020 10:34

Mocks, on appeal, if they are valid. Definition of valid not given. Ofqual to decide. I wonder when Ofqual were told they had to decide the criteria for mock exam validity. I do not envy them that one bit. I mark A levels and the standardisation to ensure valid results is tricky, and that is with training and with everyone answering the same questions, under the same conditions.

Drumple · 12/08/2020 10:34

@slug except Scotland this is my DD

This has caused us great relief. DD is in the position of being in a very small 6th form (10 students taking A levels) Very new (only second year of A levels) In an area of social deprivation and being of a calibre they had simply never seen before. She fell into all the data holes.

I am so,worried. Her school set horrific mocks and mark them harshly deliberately to make the kids work hard.

She’s stressed out and I don’t blame her at all.

SeasonFinale · 12/08/2020 10:35

Yes Scottish kids are guaranteed uni places at Scottish unis (remember they don't pay fees there).

slug · 12/08/2020 10:38

@Peaseblossom22 I know. I work in universities and am aware of the algorithms used to standardise grades. Hence my worry that she felt though all the holes.

We already had a plan for appeal if necessary, but we're happy that her mocks are strong and we have the Cambridge entrance exam to back it up as an external assessment.

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 10:41

Sorry @slug obviously you are on the case, it’s just that a lot of people seem to be assuming it’s a straight substitution. I really hope your dd’s results go well and all the planning is irrelevant . Frankly I am losing the plot now 🙁

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 10:42

My concern would be; what’s a ‘valid’ mock ?

TheFallenMadonna · 12/08/2020 10:43

Exactly.

MarmiteCrumpet25 · 12/08/2020 10:46

Does anyone know if you can appeal individual subjects to be replaced by the mock result or will it be the whole lot that are replaced?

Hercwasonaroll · 12/08/2020 10:47

@slug With a cohort that small they will award CAGs anyway. No data holes.

slug · 12/08/2020 10:48

We're just relieved that DD can sleep tonight (weather permitting) safe in the knowledge that if she's not been offered a place we have a good case for appeal.

This is the one year that I'm not manning the clearing helplines as I thought we may need to be going through it ourselves. Wink

Frazzled6 · 12/08/2020 11:03

I think you have to step back and look at the mock appeal option as a possible fallback to rectifying a CAG that may have been moderated down unfairly. In an ideal world there would have been a full appeals process but I think the Government have thrown a life line to some DC who had done well in mocks but has still been moderated down.

Obviously there are all sorts of adaptions of mocks and marking/papers are open to interpretation..

It does not help everyone, it may not be fair to everyone and an appeals system is still badly needed.

I do think it's also unjust to have Uni offers being made within the UK on a different basis of awards. It was good to see Scotland put teens mental health before grade inflation.

Hercwasonaroll · 12/08/2020 11:11

@Frazzled6 I'm coming round to that idea. Initially the headlines implied mock grades would be used wholesale. Now it's clear they can be used as an appeal. In most cases mock grades won't be above the grade awarded so the announcement is near useless.

Coffeeandbeans · 12/08/2020 11:15

My son is intending to go into the military. He needs certain grades. Will the military know that he can use his mock results instead?

It isn’t all about universities. My son has set his heart on this career. I will be so sad for him if it doesn’t happen.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.