Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

A levels - am going crazy!

105 replies

RedHotMummy · 12/08/2020 04:41

Using mock results for A levels? This is the last straw for my sanity. I appreciate that the government is trying to add a safety net by allowing mock results to be used for university entry but really, does this help?

There is so much wrong with this - mocks (the clue is in the title) are final results minus 4 months of slaving like a dog. They are internal exams, typically have only 1 paper (rather than 2 or 3 or 4, meaning the effect of one bad paper is amplified) and rarely cover the whole syllabus. There is no standardisation of marking across schools and grades typically given on % boundaries not a national bell curve. We had an internal bell curve on a small cohort which is the worst of both worlds. But I didn't challenge 75% being a B because, hey, it's a mock. It could now stop my daughter going to uni.

Papers are often marked to incentivise (time honoured kick-up approach) and, in my experience, some genders fare far better in the real exam than they did in mocks. Presumably all of this contributes to why unis don't look at mocks as an indicator.

As for the process, how do students get these mock grades to their unis and UCAS? Via Ofqual? How long will it take? Can papers be remarked or appealed? And for the coming Y13, watch the parents fight for good results incase this happens again. All of this when schools are supposed to be spending their energies focussing on opening this term.

As for unis, will they hold places open whilst all of this is going on as they have been asked to? Supposing your mocks get you into your insurance choice but not your firm or you don't make either: do both institutions have to keep both the places for you, pending the appeal? That means neither goes into clearing, which makes that process a joke. Then in the coming academic year, there is a minimum of one and possibly two unfilled spaces. A financial disaster for them, just as the predicted numbers of lucrative international students are unsure.

All this just as as Scottish results were upgraded, so it isn't a level playing field for those looking to go to a Scottish uni or competing for spaces with a Scottish student. On a political level, this could be canny move by Nichola S to either force the government's hand or effectively bolster support for the SNP (we'll be fair to your children').

Ofqual want to maintain the integrity of these examinations. Given the news on job losses,

Or is this a political move to pave the way for a move to CAG whilst maintaining the narrative that teachers ruined the process? Meaning we'll get CAGs next week too and it's a smorgasbord of possible results from which to pick and choose.

I am not saying CAGs are perfect or that there is an easy answer. But much of this mess was avoidable. I am no statistician or computer nerd but to have a model that incorporated not only data for the institution but also the individual (historical and predictive - mocks, GCSE results, predicted grades, CAGs) when such info is easily available doesn't seem beyond the wit of man.

Rant over.

OP posts:
titchy · 12/08/2020 17:40

17% of UCAS predictions turn out to be correct!

Can I correct a common misunderstanding - uni admissions aren't based on predicted grades. They're based on actual achieved grades. Offers are made, ostensibly using predicted grades, but mostly these days everyone gets an offer regardless of predictions.

Peaseblossom22 · 12/08/2020 17:45

Two of the units that ds applied to explicitly stated that they screen on predicted grades at application stage . They basically said if you are not predicted x then we won’t even look at the application . I always think of prediction as getting you through the gate

Boohoohoohooho · 12/08/2020 17:54

Titchy
Can I correct a common misunderstanding - uni admissions aren't based on predicted grades. They're based on actual achieved grades

I know that but I can see I hadn’t phrased my comment that well. I’m sure most people understand that it’s the offers that are based on predicted grades.

Aragog · 12/08/2020 17:58

Its a mess.

DD's mocks weren't great and not a true reflection. The year 12 ones were a better reflection and took into account coursework elements, as do her predicated grades. The mocks didn't include these at al, and two of dd's subjects have decent sized coursework elements. There wouldn't help her with university admission.

We have absolutely no idea what her grades are likely to be tomorrow, but I know she is panicking - she's gone out this evening to try to forget about it happening.

The only saving grace is that her insurance offer is an unconditional offer. She'd much prefer her first choice - and that was originally a compromise. She got cold feet in March when exams were cancelled and opted for her first choice to be a closer to home option with a grade lower than her original first choice. She is now really keen on the first choice but is no longer confident on the grades - she was more than likely to achieve them in the real things, with coursework included, but her mocks fell short of this - not surprising as they were partial papers cobbled together, done on the first day back after christmas, with no consideration taken or added in for the 40% (and 20 in the other subject) non exam elements.

I've been bigging up her unconditional offer place massively this week. To be fair she loved both following her interviews, and the insurance once following a week's stay there last summer.

Boohoohoohooho · 12/08/2020 18:04

Also, around one in three sixth formers in England, Wales and NI receive an unconditional offer so a lot of offers are based on predicted grades. 🤔.

Hence the big incentive for teachers and students to receive as high a predicted grades as possible.

caringcarer · 12/08/2020 18:10

I would prefer using mock grades than just giving everyone an A which is effectively what Scotland has done. No one will take students results in Scotland seriously for students of 2020. 14 per cent higher than any other year. All students are being treated fairly as can always sit in Oct if not happy with result and will have had 7 months extra to revise and improve work so do have an advantage.

Aragog · 12/08/2020 18:11

DD's unconditional grade for her insurance place happened suddenly in March Was their standard offer, but the day the exams were cancelled the university changed her offer to unconditional. She hadn't accepted any offers at that point as she'd only just had her final interview and was about to make the final two decisions that week.

Aragog · 12/08/2020 18:13

All students are being treated fairly as can always sit in Oct if not happy with result and will have had 7 months extra to revise and improve work so do have an advantage.

But they've not had 7 months too revise have they?
They'll have between now and October to revise, and with no face to face teaching. In March their teaching stopped suddenly with no completion of the courses, and most schools didn't set any additional work for year 13s after this point.

caringcarer · 12/08/2020 18:24

I am retired A level teacher and I would say a valid mock is a mock under exam conditions, including the restraints and where students have no idea of questions set in advance of test. I was always amazed and annoyed when students told me in some subjects that the teacher had pointed them towards areas questions to be set from. Other teachers use the previous years exam papers. I felt this is far too predictable and picked questions from several past papers and made them up into exam also covering all sections of specification and made 2 papers sat in 2 double lessons.

Divoc2020 · 12/08/2020 18:26

@HuaShan - if your DS was predicted 4 xA and demonstrated this in two sets of mocks, why would you NOT appeal to get these upgraded if the school submitted As for CAGs but he receives a lower grade?

Getting into his first choice (which presumably isn't higher than A*AA?) isn't the only objective. Having excellent A level grades may also be part of an overall excellent CV for top careers etc.

Hercwasonaroll · 12/08/2020 18:37

@caringcarer But how do you know that the grade boundaries you used were accurate? There is no fair way to use mocks.

Divoc2020 · 12/08/2020 18:42

@caringcarer

Lots of reasons why mocks are not 'valid' though:

  • previous exam paper used which students may have seen (or 'found' on an insecure school server with not very IT literate teachers Hmm)
  • exams being taken at different times/days and students telling each other key question areas
  • partial exams based on only a bit of the syllabus
  • arguably any mock result for a subject like drama/ music/design where the theory paper makes up 50% or less of the total award.
  • 'exams' taken in crowded classrooms, so opportunity to cheat etc
  • mocks scheduled just days after a huge drama production for some kids
etc etc

They are such an unstable set of results!

SuperSange · 12/08/2020 18:46

Can anyone explain to me what the usual
process is red marking after the exam has been sat? So the paper is marked, then what? Moderation? That's understandable. It's the process of standardisation, bell curves and moving grade boundaries that I dont understand. Why not mark the paper, check it, and that's the result? Grade boundaries set before the exam. I'm not saying it's not valid, I just don't understand why it's done.

Boohoohoohooho · 12/08/2020 19:07

No one will take students results in Scotland seriously for students of 2020

The results won't have the same weight as usual but I'm not sure it will matter too much to future employers - surely it will mean that employers will just focus on applicants degree results.

Bathroom12345 · 12/08/2020 20:03

The teachers who inflated their grades for their own ends, to big themselves up, to give their students a chance at a much higher university then the student would normally go to. Those are the people I blame for all of this. Some schools would have played it straight down the line. Others need to hang their heads in shame. They have spoilt it for the rest.

My DS will do OK. He did well in his mocks. Why some pupils thought they didn’t really matter is beyond me. They are now complaining they were just about to start the hard work. I guess it’s a lesson for all of us. The mocks have ended up being the exam....

Standrewsschool · 12/08/2020 20:09

It’s a mess.

Every few mi utes it seems like my son is coming down with the latest installment. Fortunately, his job isn’t grade dependent, but I feel sorry for those which are.

Ironically, my eldest son would have done a lot better using this system, as his work, mocks etc were better than his final results.

titchy · 12/08/2020 20:09

@Boohoohoohooho

No one will take students results in Scotland seriously for students of 2020

The results won't have the same weight as usual but I'm not sure it will matter too much to future employers - surely it will mean that employers will just focus on applicants degree results.

What about the kids who don't go to university? What about next years cohort competing with the current cohort?
Hercwasonaroll · 12/08/2020 20:26

@SuperSange

It's because it's impossible to set exams of equal difficulty every year. Therefore for the grades awarded to remain equivalent, the boundaries change.

A fictitious example

in 2018 55% was the average score on a science paper. In 2019 65% was the average score on the same qualification (different paper). It's incredibly unlikely that the whole year group became 10% cleverer. Instead the 2019 paper may have unintentionally been easier. Therefore you adjust the boundaries to fit the new average score and keep the proportion of students achieving each grade broadly in line. It means that a grade 4 is worth the same in both years.

Boohoohoohooho · 12/08/2020 20:29

Titchy
What about the kids who don't go to university? What about next years cohort competing with the current cohort?

There is no denying it’s going to cause a lot of problems. I’m curious to see what happens to the spread of degree classifications awarded this year. The numbers of firsts being awarded was already going up year by year. I wonder if this will be a boon year.

SuperSange · 12/08/2020 20:34

@Hercwasonaroll Thank you! That's quite clear. I'd assumed the papers were equivalent.

HuaShan · 12/08/2020 20:40

@Divoc2020 DS needs 2x A A and is taking 4. As long as he gets his firm he has said he will be happy. His 2 A* are in specified subjects, one of which he took an AS in when he was in Y 10.

Bathroom12345 · 12/08/2020 20:44

Two A* and an A are very high grades. Just being nosey. Which university asked for this?

HuaShan · 12/08/2020 21:00

It's Oxford, Maths *@Bathroom12345. It's their standard offer. He also had to sit the Maths admissions test and was interviewed over 3 days. 2xA for Maths and Further Maths should have been a doddle for him.

Bathroom12345 · 12/08/2020 21:03

Yikes. I will keep my fingers crossed for your son! I don’t live far from Oxford. Lovely vibrant city.

HuaShan · 12/08/2020 21:06

Thank you. I have my fingers crossed for the many dc on this thread, the Oxbridge thread and the main University 2020 thread. They have kept me sane!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.