Solicitor apprenticeship

[questioner123]

Hi everyone

I'm looking for your opinions please on whether you would encourage your DC to take up a solicitor apprenticeship with a city firm or go to a top uni to study Law...

Many thanks

I wouldn't as it can be hugely life changing to leave home, mix with others at a very good university, make that break from home and then do law after. However I qualified the traditional route as did my daughters and will my son so I clearly think that route is pretty good.

By the way half of the best lawyers don't study lawe at university but read another subject instead so it is not a choice of law at university or an apprenticeship - the third option is not reading law but going to a top university.

I am sure others will be along to say the apprenticeship route is good.

Hi Xenia thanks for replying. DD has an offer to study Law at Nottingham (which she loves) which makes the decision difficult! Both have benefits/negatives, but DD is worried about missing out on the uni experience...

I work in a law firm where we take solicitor apprentices. It is a new route to qualifying and will lack some of the life learning from
University but at same time you are paid all the way through your studies so no debt and loans or working part time jobs to cover living expenses alongside study.

Maybe less fun at the time but perhaps a better financial start - I loved my time a university but looking back can see the advantage of the direct qualification route and well worth considering

My concern would be that it's brand new. Who's the training provider - will she get a degree? Will it be recognised if not when she's job hunting later down the line. It's a long apprenticeship and the Gov's apprenticeship policy is dreadful and categorically not working so there's a small risk it might be disbanded part the way through.

I personally wouldn’t recommend the apprenticeship route over a degree as it will leave her with rather limited choices if she wants to go and do something other than law in the future.

I’m with deadwood. I’ve got a first class LLB, from a Brilliant university, and I am not a solicitor or barrister. I’m a teacher within CAMHS. (I ended up being a Youth offending paralegal on graduating and moved along from there) I was able to get onto a fully funded teacher training programme because of my degree. Had I done an apprenticeship I wouldn’t be where I am now

I know nothing about law or apprenticeships but am generally of the view that it is never a good idea to be the canary in the mineshaft.

Thanks everyone for your replies- very useful. She studies for the LLB one day a week (online) and it is provided by BPP. I don’t know much about this provider??

The commute is also something that concerns her as it would be 1.5-2 hrs each way...

Would she be paid enough to be able to afford accommodation in the place where she will be working? Up to 4 hours a day travelling is not a good idea if one can possibly avoid it and if a university was that far away, 99% of students would opt to move onto halls.

For info, BPP is a very good provider of professional training. They provide a lot of the training for big 4 accountancy firms as well as law firms.

BPP are very good if you work hard and want to go straight into a specific job and are happy to stay with one firm until completed (probably a little longer under contract as they're paying for the training). I trained to be a paralegal with them. However, if you want wider options in the future, like others have said, a degree is probably better.

I'd go with the degree purely because it gives more options if law is not where you want to end up in time. I did my traditional training contract at a major city firm then worked 2 years at a big regional before deciding city law was not for me!

My dd has a friend who is doing this. I think it takes 6 years in total? Not paid very well but of course no student debt. As others have said, the problem could be if you change your mind about being a solicitor or what happens if you want to leave the apprenticeship to do something else. Shes living at home whereas my dd are living away, running houses and having a great social life. I think it depends on your dds personality a hit too. As to the commute , they may be flexible with start /finish times if thus would help shorten it.

I would generally say get a degree and then qualify. Law firms remain extremely elitist about where your degree is from and what route you take. Although everyone knows BPP I still don’t think it has the name of a ‘red brick’ university.
As against that, if she is absolutely certain law is where her heart lies, and she is able to get an apprenticeship now at a firm it may not be easy to get into later (as the competition is so much greater - and she is then competing with oxbridge graduates etc etc) then I could see the benefit.

I thought the idea behind apprenticeships was that they provided a route into law for people unable to do a degree for e.g, financial reasons. The degree route is preferable imo if someone is able to do it, not least for the "living experience" and chance to live independently.

I'm a partner in a firm that offers apprenticeships, so I will be interested to see it in practice. But I'm not sure I'd recommend my daughter be a guinea pig for the new route.

I supervise an apprentice at my firm. She’s fantastic and is doing really well. But I wish she’d gone to uni. She’s getting good legal experience, but there’s not an awful lot of fun in a law firm for an 18 year old! Particularly with a long commute like that - she’ll be dashing to make her train just as colleagues are thinking about going for drinks. If she can afford to go to uni and you think she’ll enjoy that experience (I know it’s not for everyone) then I’d encourage that route. As PP said, I’ll be interested to see how it works down the line but I feel a bit sorry for the current lot of guinea pigs.

She may finds she hates being a solicitor ( it can be pretty boring and mundane , especially as she will be general dogsbody to start with ) Doing the Law degree gives her so many options , I believe a lot of law students never go on to work in Law after they have their degrees .
University , although it can be costly will provide her with so many opportunities ( she will have to push herself forward , they wont come to her ) and life experience

Good advice above which seems to confirm my view above too.

It looks she has a place to read law at Nottingham. One of my lawyer daughters went to Notttingham (not to read law - she did the GDL and LPC with BPP in London after as plenty do). She really enjoyed Nottingham.

As someone said above don't be a guinea pig if you can help it and this a new route (or I mean new for 2020 - back 60 years ago loads of people went from scholol to being articled to a solicitor for 5 years + whilst doing exams - so in a sense it is an old route although my uncle did an external LLB in the 1890s - he became a solicitor and even then, I noticed when looking at family records everyone, was putting the LLB on things - they were all so proud he had got that degree, even his attendance at his mother's funeral noted in the newspaper in 1906 mentioned the LLB! I don't think have a degree will diminish in importance any time soon.

However for those who might otherwise not have the chance to go then it can be useful. Also it may be esaier to get trainee solicitor jobs in London on £40k after you finish if you go the normal graduate route. I suspect it may be harder to get into the best firms with the highest pay if you qualify via the apprenticeship route but will obviously suit some people.

If she does got o Nottingham make sure she realises she has to apply years ahead to law firms for training contracts.

This is not relevant to her current choice but there are some new solicitor exams coming out SQE1 and SQE2. She should keep up to date on those. It is relevant for my twins - the one who starts the GDL (law conversion course) this September is under the current system and if he twin does the course after his gap year he is in the new system with the new exams.

"What are the transitional arrangements?

Our transitional arrangements are designed to give candidates who are on their way to becoming a solicitor as much choice as possible.

Someone who is already on their way can choose to qualify through the existing routes or the SQE. This includes anyone who has started, completed or accepted an offer for the Common Professional Examination or a Qualifying Law Degree by the time the SQE is introduced in autumn 2021.

These people will have 11 years after the SQE is introduced to qualify in this way." www.sra.org.uk/sra/policy/sqe/transitional-arrangements/

Some law degree providers may be including preparation for the first part of the exams SQEI into their degrees and then I suspect there will be some kind of course like the LPC and then after that people will sit SQE2 and they will still need 2 yeaqrs of recognised training so may not be massive changes for some but could be possible for others to try to learn for those exams without doing a course - which is probably risky but technically possible.

I can’t comment on law, but doing an apprenticeship in accountancy has been around for a while. So what I say below you would need to research with respect of law.

Pro’s: They are fully qualified after 4 years, with the increase in pay that goes with it, whilst those who have been to university (and wracked up the associated debt) are completing their first of three years of training and are on a trainees pay at the same time.

Cons: some are immature at that age and it shows, and don’t do well (others sail through it, it depends on the individual you will know.

Also if they aren’t successful (both at work and with exams) they won’t be kept on after the apprenticeship and then she’d be back to considering next steps/ potentially starting uni 2 years older than her peers.

Finally there’s just missing out on the ‘life experience’ of university.

Once qualified it’s not necessarily the degree that’s looked at but who you trained with, and the experiences within work that have been experienced, so I’d say it depends on the firm who is offering the apprenticeship.

After looking at the firm, and if it’s a ‘big name’ firm or not, I’d then look at the commute. It’s hard work when you are both working and studying for exams, you have to get your head down, and doing it during a commute isn’t going to allow for the concentration needed. So if but for that it seems like that right route for her, I’d then consider if there was somewhere more local for her to stay (potentially with a family or somewhere where she can rent a large room/ meals included or something similar?). The cost of that would probably be a lot less than the debt from uni.

As I said this applies to accountancy, and I’d encourage people to do the apprenticeship route if in the right firm and they were sensible for their age, understanding that they’re working and able to manage the level of self study needed. It could be very different to law but it may help with some of the things to consider.

Which firm? It’s very difficult getting training contracts these days, especially if you don’t have a degree from a top university and lots of experience. Equally apprenticeships aren’t well respected and she could end up in a dead end job unless she’s doing the apprenticeship at a decent firm.

The solicitors qualify after 6 years, not 4.

Depending on the firm, this could provide a really good opportunity at a city firm. Getting the same opportunity later will be very competitive. I’d be inclined to take it. If she’s reading law at university there is no guarantee she’d get a training contract that’s better.

I’ve had a look at the programme offered by another firm and I really cannot see what you wouldn’t like. If she wants a job in the city she’s going to have to commute or move to London at some stage. Law firms won’t be just asking for basic work. They should move trainees around departments and it does take the risk away from employment later.

There are 18,000 law grads each year and 6500 training contracts. Many other grads apply for them. That’s the risk. It’s by no means certain she will get into a city firm next time around when the Oxbridge crew apply. I really would take it. The city firms all have contracts with BPP or City to provide their training. It’s a normal route.

You need to look at what she’s being offered by the firm and look at BPP too. I think she’s got a foot in the door and that’s worth quite a lot in law!

Why would she end up in a dead end job? She would be the same as other trainees!

The hours might be huge though. DDs friends were working silly hours as trainees post grad.