Medicine 2021

[Millylovespuddles]

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

I have never heard of intercalation as being a ‘fun’ year. DD has had to get permission from her own medical school, which involved having a good academic performance with an interview to confirm her serious interest in her intercalation subject and she is now applying: PS; essay; a longish form and a reference. We have no idea whether they will accept her. She has already decided against applying for a course which is known to be very competitive. She is expecting it to be hard work. The initial problem is that it involves a summer school, which starts before she finishes this clinical year. They say that, if accepted, she can do it by distance learning, ie two courses at once.

I am again not sure about the ‘lots of snogging and drinking’. DDs med school has an annual medics ball and a pub crawl but turning up to placements hungover very frowned upon. Perhaps a disadvantage of a hands on course, though not a problem for DD. I assume other med schools offer more of a party culture for those who will want to prioritise this.

Oh I give up. Yes DD turns up to placements pissed off her head and snogs anything that moves. She'll be a crap doctor. I think that's what you want to hear isn't it ?
In the real world. Some intercalate in non medical areas as they like the chance to try something completely different and some places think this is a great idea. But it is competitive for the popular choices.

Oh and she got 100% in her 6 OSCEs last year. Because, you know, she's as good a medical student as any other. But she's also human who enjoys partying and boys. So, you know, a normal teenager.
Good luck mums of 2021. You're kids have made a great start by looking at where they will most likely get interviews. I wish them all the best in the coming year.

I know Queens, in Belfast, allows an intercalation year in some other Universities, one friend’s daughter has gone to Edinburgh. another has gone to the States to do a business course! not compulsory but is a nice option.

I think the problem may be the copious references you make in your posts to drinking especially mumsneedwine. It's hilarious, obviously, but you know, even kids on the most academic courses manage partying and sport and all sorts of other activities usually including a sex life. But is it really necessary to keep bringing the drinking and snogging up on medical threads? Can't we just leave the kids to it once they've left home?

My approach would be to work out where the likely interviews will come from and then prioritise by looking beyond the offers to other things such as career prospects etc. Those with the best grades, assuming other attributes required for medics, can obviously afford to be the most picky. I think it's wrong not to be aspirational and to just assume that any old offer will do.

I think leaving this thread to the mums of 2021 is best. Good luck to all your lovely kids. I'm sure whenever they go they will have fun and be great doctors. Kind, ca

Sorry, puppy jumped on me. Kind, caring, compassionate.

mumsneedwine that's the third time you've claimed to be leaving the thread. Your call, no-one else's. These medical threads in recent years have been incredibly unaspirational while I've been pretty much a bystander, flicking in and out occasionally. Med school offers really aren't nearly as difficult to come by as the threads would have applicants believe and it's getting easier. Parents should encourage DC to find a good fit but not to dumb things down if they have the grades and the sorts of attributes that the schools are looking for. I don't know quite why the MN record has stuck on 'any med offer will do' 'it's an emotional roller coaster' etc etc. If DC are going to make good doctors then there's something to be said for making bold but rational decisions, not just taking the line of least resistance. Any DC with 9A or 11A is in a string position and shouldn't be cowed into thinking the fence is impossibly high when it isn't.

Probably a strong position, not a string position....

Not everyone wants to go to Oxbridge because it's not the course for them. I know your 6 kids have all gone there and you think it's vital to have any kind of future, but others don't. I don't understand why you don't understand this

And I've returned to the thread as several others have asked me to. Privately. So I have because I want to help other parents of potential medics. I know how tough it is for people with non medic families and I'd like to be kind and offer any advice we gained.

So when asked I will try and help.

I have a huge sign in my tutor room from my favourite film.
In a works where you can be anything, be kind.

I'm now off to catch up on Younger - can recommend it !!

World. Puppy again - he's very cute but ever so slightly nuts.

Thank you for the information. I have since seen all my typos on my post - sorry! I think you got the idea though!
Compulsory at the uni you are attending, compulsory but can go elsewhere to study, optional but can go elsewhere - lots to think about!

I guess it’s all part of the big picture though and finding the best fit taking all of the info into account.

I can see how intercalation could be fun - going to a new city - or even country!! Meeting new people etc. I am sure it’s also very hard work too.

That sounds great for your friends’ daughters Milly!! Edinburgh and America - exciting stuff! Shows what can be done!

Goodbye - that sounds like a good way to approach decision making, thank you - I know it maybe sounds defeatist by having a bit of a “go anywhere that will take me” attitude, but it’s hard not to feel a little that way when all we hear is how competitive it is, how many applications per place etc. It can easily send you towards that frame of mind. I would hope on her UCAS form she will have one aspirational option, two that she really fancies for whatever reason and one that could potentially be a safer bet!

Ever thought of going into diplomacy LaLa 😂.

mumsneedwine being aspirational is relative. It might be Oxbridge, it might not. I don't think imputing Oxbridge delusions to me will help anyone very much, if only because I've never been under any delusions about Oxbridge, I'm not currently under any delusions and I'm not likely to ever develop any delusions. In the context of your many, many contributions to these threads since your DD was applying a couple of years ago though, the more 'traditional' courses probably don't deserve the opprobrium you heap on them. So you know, just flying the flag because perhaps someone ought to. There are DC out there with the grades and all round ability who might prefer that type of course and whose parents shouldn't be oppressed into thinking that offers are so supremely hard to come by that any offer from any institution however ranked is enough. I just don't subscribe to the dumbing down of everything approach, I find it very grey.

Trying my best here!! Maybe I missed my calling 😂😂

Seriously though, all the input is much appreciated by us poor Mums trying to navigate this complicated path.

DD has 10A* at GCSE as is making great progress with her A levels and volunteering etc.

Much of what I read however scares me to death - so much needs to align for them to successfully secure a place but maybe I’m being over dramatic!

I can see how intercalation could be fun - going to a new city - or even country!! Meeting new people etc. I am sure it’s also very hard work too.

Most of our students returning from intercalation years say it's been fun, apart from the ones who've done intercalated MPhils (one-year research degrees), who come back exhausted but feeling like they can achieve absolutely anything. I was talking yesterday to one who is currently doing an intercalated MSc and having the time of her life. It certainly isn't all work.

This is another thing to bear in mind: different medical schools will offer opportunities to intercalate at different points: after year 2, year 3 or year 4, with later intercalation points allowing intercalated masters' as well as bachelors' degrees.

Such good advice SirToby. And please don't feel it's daunting for DD LaLa - with 10 A*s she is going to get a lot of options (Cardiff a shoe in for interview). Type of course, ways of teaching and Uni location all very important. Interaction is something to ask about at open days - how many do it, what options are available.

Puppy. Intercalation is not on predictive test.

Ideally they need to get their UCAS in as early as possible to get most offers. Just a matter of ratios. As early offers are made, places are taken thus reducing the places for late offers.

A lad who was at school with my daughter challenged George’s for not offering him an interview. They relented and he studied there but has now qualified. Sometimes it’s worth sticking your neck out.

LaLaFlottes honestly there's no need for anyone with 10A* to be anything other than quietly confident of a place at a good or top ranking uni. MN has become a hotbed of hysteria on these threads since DS1 applied, without any real foundation. I'm not quite sure of the reason - possibly people bigging up their own DC? I tend to be a bit more matter of fact with mine, but it doesn't seem to have done a huge amount of harm. Seriously, great grades and volunteering sorted, she's a lot of the way there. I do see that with middle of the road grades it will be an uphill struggle but the 2021 crowd seem to have kids with top grades - which opens far more doors and types of learning and obviously significantly increases the chance of offers. Be confident!

Thank you SirToby - that’s good to hear. I didn’t actually know that the opportunity to intercalate could be at different points and can therefore offer different opportunities. Another thing learnt today!

Mumsneedwine - thank you 😊 she’s currently looking into the types of course and teaching. She has a good spreadsheet on the go!! She’s not too sure about PBL but I think they have a mock session coming up soon as part of the college future medic club so that might help her a bit more there.

So much to consider. Regarding location, she’s fairly open - she loves cities and London (we live fairly close), but equally likes the thought of a campus uni. Also keen to investigate Scotland more as we have family there!

Ideally they need to get their UCAS in as early as possible to get most offers. Just a matter of ratios. As early offers are made, places are taken thus reducing the places for late offers.

This is simply untrue.

All medical schools will be waiting for aptitude test results. We don't get the UCAT results until late October/early November; BMAT results aren't available until late November. So there isn't really any scope for making decisions until a couple of weeks after the UCAS deadline.

Also, offers aren't made without interview, so they're not going to happen before the application deadline. Many medical schools shortlist for interview on the basis of aptitude test scores, starting with the highest and working down. When the application was submitted plays no part in this, as long as it was before the deadline. Others take other factors into account (GCSE grades, personal statements, other autobiographical statments). Again, shortlisting for interview will be based on scores from these, not on when the application was submitted.

We are subject to endless Freedom of Information Act requests regarding the scores achieved by applicants shortlisted for interview, made offers, etc. If we were favouring lower-scoring applicants over those who scored higher but applied earlier we would be - quite rightly - having to deal with numerous appeals, complaints, Office for Students (OfS) sanctions and probably lawsuits.

Sorry I’m slow typing on my phone!
Cherry - that’s amazing that lad challenged the university and then ended up with a place! Good for him! I guess it just shows they should never give up.

When you say early, re the UCAS forms, how early would you recommend?

Goodbye - thank you. She worked so hard for her GCSE results, I guess we should be feeling like we are ticking the right boxes, I just keep getting the impression that gaining a place is almost impossible!

My d is a first year at imperial. This year they’re doing one day a fortnight at a GP practice and so far doing a variety of things, not just sitting in a corner during consultations. She has said that the amount of work in the first units was huge but she’s also loving that the course is very co ordinated across the course - for example one day they were doing head and neck things in the anatomy classes in the morning, then learning about neurological assessment in the skills sessions that afternoon. There seems to be a good balance between theory and practical work, a lot of focus on communication skills and patient centred care, and lots of learning opportunities outside of the timetable with things like study sessions run by older students and visiting speakers. She is doing some voluntary work in paediatrics which she is enjoying far more than she expected. She believes that year two has more patient contact opportunities via GP/ community then in year three they have three ten week hospital placements. Year four is intercalation, then years five/six are all about preparation for practice. She said as heavy as the workload has been so far, it’s not nearly as stressful as this time last year!

She chose not to apply to oxford/Cambridge as she felt their course structures wouldn’t suit her. And partly due to lack of confidence tbh, although she had the grades and BMAT that would have probably got her an interview (and met their standard offer) had she applied. She just felt that the late patient contact and essay heavy format wouldn’t suit her, she’s loving the integrated course at imperial and although not too happy about them removing dissection, is thriving.

They do have alcohol etc at imperial - she’d underestimated the social scene and is enjoying it. Particularly the cross-year support between the medic year groups and the sports nights at Reynolds. Not the snogs though, boyfriend at another uni so they seem to be spending time together on alternate weekends at his place (about an hour out of London) or hers! At imperial they have socials organised by the main SU, socials organised by the medic SU, sports socials (she put her trainers on once so it’s not just for committed athletes), and halls socials, as well as impromptu things like flatmates nights out, so there’s always something going on. And actually it seems reasonable given earlier posts to point out that Oxbridge students are not all in bed by ten and up with the lark to improve their minds, from the late/early phone calls that Dd regularly gets x