Are they many of you that have persuaded your dc to go to local universities and stay living at home

[EleanorReally]

i am sure i heard this was a thing now, due to expense.

I can't work out how to screenshot on my phone, but essentially in Scotland, if your household income is less than 21k then you can borrow £5750 and you'll also get a bursary of 2k. Next band is 21 to 24k, where you can borrow the same but the bursary falls to £1125,. 24 to 34k and you can borrow same but bursary drops to £500. Above 34k then can only borrow £4750 and no bursary. Most courses are 4 years or above.

England/Wales allow much higher loans, then. There’s the £9250 fees loans on top of the maintenance loans. Not sure which is worse?

“Not sure which is worse?”

Depends, for me or for the DC? Lol

Thing is, it is a very different set up, so by pointing out that my DC get a lot less money in their loan and that our income isn’t as high as you’d expect if you’re not in Scotland so it would be more money coming out of a smaller income than elsewhere.

I’m not complaining, just explaining why finances had to be discussed and were part of why they decided what they were doing about staying here or moving to study.

They might have decided differently if the courses they wanted were far away, so it wasn’t the main factor in that choice, just one of them in how they were going to manage once they’d picked.

my DC get a lot less money in their loan and that our income isn’t as high as you’d expect if you’re not in Scotland so it would be more money coming out of a smaller income than elsewhere.

Possibly part of the trade off - like no fees to pay back, but capped places for home students?

I am curious as to which is 'chicken' and which 'egg' in Scotland, though: traditionally high rates of students staying in the parental home whilst at university (prompted ny the average age of starting at university being ?17?), so no need for a loans/ bursary package that anywhere near supports moving away anyway, for a lot of people? Or the loans / bursary package being set (possibly fuelled by the desire to have 'free' university places for - at least some - home students) at a level which really doesn't support moving away for the majority, so many have not moving put imposed upon them?

Not really sure marching but all those factors make it more difficult for DC to get into/stay at uni here. That might be the plan? Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing for some either. As I say, it's not impacting us too much as we've planned for it and prioritised it and we've been lucky to have stable employment and modest expenditure. We've told dc to take the loan but we are hoping that they don't have to use it and we can fully fund them. Currently dhs entire NHS salary goes on them for rent, travel and food etc. If he has to stop working or retire earlier than planned then that won't be possible. They both have 4 years to go as Ds1 is doing a 5 year MEng course and DS2 just started a 4 year MA.

“I am curious as to which is 'chicken' and which 'egg' in Scotland“

No clue tbh...

But I’d assume distance comes into too, all the Edinburgh unis, Glasgow unis and Stirling are all commutable from my house anyway, that makes a difference

For those who have dcs living at home what do they do with boyfriends/ girlfriends staying over in the family home or do they go to their other halves halls of residence or house shares?

DD’s so far have all been boys still at home also and local, her current on off one has only stayed here once, she’s stayed at his mum’s a few times and they sometimes stay in town with friends on the same course they’re on.

DS is autistic and so far it isn’t something we’ve had to factor in, it’s also partly why we have two studying at the same time without the finances to cover them staying away... he’s 4 years older, so should have graduated as she started, but he ended up doing a year of college first and having to add an extra year on to his degree course, so this is now his 6th year of student loans.

There are additional issues for medics:

1. Medical schools often seem to like local applicants, and have school links and similar to encourage them. Cynically I understand that they like students who are likely to stay on to work in the area, particularly areas which have shortages including for rural GPs. (Not just rural. In South London quite a lot of nice kids we knew studied at SGUL and local GPs often seem to have been trained there.)

1. Costs are high. It is a five/six year course. DD term will last from the start of September till the day before Christmas, about 16 weeks. She needs suitable clothes for placements. All on the same money as other students, indeed after year four, on less money than other students. Socially living at home would not matter. They have long hours so medics tend to form bonded groups. Plus after year two on many courses they spend much of the year on placement staying in Hospital accommodation.

Had DD got an offer at our nearest medical school she would have gone, and lived at home. It was never really an issue. The right course, and the likelihood of a place were primary considerations.

@tabulahrasa, glad you’re still around! I remember you from the SN board years ago. I was EllenJane. My DS2 with ASD is 20 now and he’s studying at home in the local college. The Scottish loans system seems to adversely affect those with parents on modest incomes. Despite having less to borrow with no fees, you aren’t allowed to borrow enough to live on!

The free fees is a bit of a double edged sword. The government only pays the unis about £1900 instead of the £9k plus they get for a ruk student or £13k plus for a rest of world student so unis limit the number of available places for Scottish students. They then can't borrow enough to live on. So, okay they don't have the debt but some students will never pay all that back anyway.

In Wales, the maintenance loan system aims to furnish every student with 9k per year. 1k is a minimum grant that does not need paying back. The lower the family income the higher the grant and the lower the loan. We earn ok so get the minimum grant for dd. Her halls cost 6k. In England her maintenance wouldn't have covered even that. Due to living in Wales she has 3k left over to live on so minimal input is needed by us.

@DrMadelineMaxwell, that doesn't really make any sense, does it?

Everybody gets 9k, but if the your parents earnings are higher a greater proportion is loan, so you have to pay more back, is that correct? So, the parents themselves have no more financial expectation put on them by way of supporting their child, but the student is punished because their parents are better off?

In Scotland they rather make the poor borrow more. Anyone on a household income of less than £34k can borrow £5750 rather than £4750 but there are bursaries on top for lower incomes that don't need paid back. None take you up near £9k though and there is no differential for living at home or away.

Call me a cynic, but it's almost like the snp would rather keep the poor/everyone uneducated in order to keep control...

Can you tell I'm not a fan?

If the course ds wanted to do was close enough for him to stay living at home that would be what he would be doing. We wouldn't be paying £600 month just so he could experience life away from home.

Artie my DD’s friend had a family who would not it could not top up her loan under the old Welsh system which was similar to SFE. She had to do lots of paid work to get by, failed her exams. She now has a student loan and no degree.

Under the new Welsh system she would have a bigger loan but would be independent of her family and may have succeeded at uni.

I like the Welsh system as students from poorer families get grants (remember those?) and students from better off families can be more independent or borrow less if parents are willing and able to subsidise.

Wax, isn't there a loan for Scottish students who study in Scotland but don't live at home? 5700 or 4700 wouldn't even start to cover living expenses plus rent.
Now I know why ds is at home and his well off pals aren't.

Ssd, not as far as I can see unless I have completely missed something. As I say, we are paying and supporting both DSs anyway, but I just can't see how maybe a single income house at the support threshold with 2 at uni could possibly afford to provide the top up required and expected. Especially if they still had mortgage to pay and other teenagers to support etc. DC would really have little option but to stay at home or work quite a bit. Having said that, DS travels and has the free rail card from the bank, however you can't use that on a season ticket and now he is 19, the young Scot discount has ended so we are about £230 a month. He can use the card on day tickets but if he needs to be in uni before 10am, then a minimum ticket price of £12 a day applies. Then he needs to run a car to get to and from the station. So, even though he lives at home, there is still a fair amount of expense that is not subsidised.

Personally I think it’s worth moving into halls for the first year, even if you then move home. That way you have the best chance of forming friendships.

It’s just very different staying local for many reason if the local university has your course and is of the standard you would choose if location was not a factor, than having to choose a course to match the university, losing out not having good enough grades or missing out on a more prestigious universities because of commuting time or cost.

So, the parents themselves have no more financial expectation put on them by way of supporting their child, but the student is punished because their parents are better off?

'Punished' by having a larger amount to pay back at some point, rather than being tipped up to a nominal maximum by their parents (who may or may not demand repayment), yes. But at least they are guaranteed the £9 000 pa to live on. Unlike SFE students who may be assessed on their parents' income as only being allowed to borrow, say, £5 000, whose parents refuse to give them a penny, as in @Canklesforankles' example under the previous system in Wales.

Living away for at least the first year would have been my preference for Ds1 as well as DS2 tbh, but he would not have coped socially or mental health wise. He also only ended up going in for about 20 weeks between holidays, consolidation weeks and exam time. He didn't have any exams last year as he achieved around 90% average in his class tests and course work. So basically went from last week in September until end November and then mid January until end March. DS2 is too far away to travel but appears to be having a blast. He's been away 5 weeks but is coming home for the weekend so I will enjoy catching up on what adventures he is willing to share

I think going away can be good for their development but other factors are increasingly coming into play.
For me these being:

Cost and substantially less debt
Being at home means they can get a PT job that they can do in term and holidays
Support..the nannying they get in 6th form in my opinion makes transition harder..double edge sword I know
Many courses have very little in tuition hours. I know of courses where 6-9 hours a week are the norm. The outcome is they have staggering number of hours in student accommodation and some are isolated....a couple of friends kids experienced this badly this year

What would help is stopping delivering courses with sub 10 hours tuition a week and shorten the degree course length....oh but of course the university could not charge as much in tuition fees to keep the chancellors on astoundingly high salaries

Crikey! What courses are those?

@EvenPhilip

Economics and Psychology to name a few of ones I knew going to university this year. Absolutely astounding. Even better...all the lectures are recorded on podcast so attendance isn't mandatory and some view from home!

The ones that seem more full time were medicine, dentistry, engineering.