3 A Levels for medicine when everyone else is doing 4

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DS is at a well-known grammar where 4 A levels is the norm for medicine applicants. He’s done his EPQ and is doing 3 sciences & maths A level. He wants to drop physics. School (strong on Oxbridge) say “because his peers are doing 4, his doing 3 will be seen as a less competitive application”. He’s getting good BMAT scores in practise but who knows on the day? He isn’t applying to Cambridge where l know many have taken 4 A levels. More interested in the London med schools. He’s emailed and asked and they just quote the standard “3 A levels required”. He doesn’t know his predicted grades yet but it’s more the risk of missing an offer together with the extra work load of the 4th A level that is bothering him. If many of his peers at school are doing 4 and he does 3 will admission a Tutor think “hmm despite going to X School he’s only take 3 A levels..”. His school have a huge cohort of medicine applicants every year.

And there were 7,474 medical students who graduated this year and 7,551 places. Many students apply from abroad for F1 placements do might be them who didn't get a place. Everyone from my DDs Med School got placed and has started work - a few went abroad and a few have taken time out.

DS going into yr11 was told in a sixth form information session last month that they recommend those choosing Maths A level start Further Maths. They will then recommend most drop it at the end of year12. The philosophy being it's useful extra learning but unless heading for a maths degree why put additional pressure on yourself? I thought that was good of the teachers because they will have extra marking in yr12 and it's pragmatic.

My d found that having done further maths for much of year 12, she’s already covered the vast majority of year 13 maths for the single A level. This gave her time to really hit the sciences as imperial specified that the A* had to be in chemistry or biology.

I don’t believe there’s any ‘the unis will expect higher from OUR school’. The selection process has to be shown to be equitable to all, with slightly different criteria being applied to contextual applicants. Most of the unis publish how they select candidates for interview, many now just check that gcse scores meet criteria then rank on the aptitude test. Or have some kind of points score using gcse/predicted A levels/ aptitude test. Which school they went to doesn’t come into it. And these days fewer and fewer are even reading personal statements.

Outside of FM, l wonder why anyone does 4 A levels?

Outside of FM, l wonder why anyone does 4 A levels?

So their Mums can post about it on Mumsnet 😬

Sorry to hijack. Will less than straight 8/9s at gcse be an issue? My dd got 2 x 6s but got a good ukcat and is predicted a a and a. She’s not looking at oxbridge.

@newgirls your DD can target medial schools that give less weight to GCSE results and more to UKCAT

Thanks olga - will investigate x

Outside of FM, l wonder why anyone does 4 A levels?

DS1 has Music as his 4th because he loves it with a passion and I couldn't get him to give it up.

The only concern I would have is, if the school is pushing all to do four, if his teacher reference will be less glowing.

Ellmau, that's a good point. In some strange way he feels like he is on the back foot already. The only one of his cohort doing 3 A levels, teacher takes a dim view etc. It's seems to be an issue for him unnecessarily.
How much weight do teacher references make I wonder? In the final cut nobody knows I guess?

The school references are usually screened, that’s all. The things that count for interview selection are almost aways exam results and entrance test results.

Remember the uni have to quantify, analyse and evaluate their admission system.

I wasn't saying someone who takes 3 A levels isn't capable of medicine

But that someone capable of medicine will also be capable of doing 4 levels and doing well. If they find 4 A levels is too much work then medicine will be too much work.

I also think 4 helps give you a good work ethic for medicine, I know it's cringy but I think it helps instill the "work smarter not harder" mentality and helps students learn how to work effectively, and revise effectively for themselves over what 3 A levels does. Otherwise the leap from 3 A levels to medicine is massive, and there is a huge jump in workload which can be difficult

With 4 you have wiggle room with the extra 2, it's so easy to fuck up an exam or as a previous thread coursework gets marked down and you lose your place. At least with 4 you've got a bit more wiggle room. Maths physics tie in together well too, revising for maths will help with physics A level anyway and visa versa.

It's your DSs choice ultimately though, and his application won't be affected. The unis won't place much emphasise (if any) on his teacher references

OP our school has given the same advice for many years, especially for those aiming for Oxbridge, Imperial and UCL. It has a very good track record in relation to Medicine places (not just offers - very few have missed their offer grades).

While I agree with what HostessTrolley says about the need to combine school work with ordinary work, work experience, other extra curriculars and - importantly - a social life, the fact is that a lot of applicants do the whole lot and achieve their predictions of four A*. That's especially true of Oxbridge applicants with whom your DS will be competing for a UCL place. If he were aiming at medical schools with a different profile of applicant I'd agree with three being sufficient but he's not, at least in terms of his top choice.

That said, HostessTrolley's D got an Imperial offer but then she'd done a fourth subject right the way through Y12.

'Context' is applied to all schools HostessTrolley, when considering applications.

Very strongly agree with BlueCornsihPixe's post too. It's the ability to juggle the whole lot including parties/ late night etc which demonstrates stamina.

DS1 took History as his last A Level simply because he liked it.

'Context' is applied to all schools HostessTrolley, when considering applications

@goodbyestranger which medical school is this please ? Because usually contextual offers are for particular schools, areas or applicants who are deemed to be disadvantaged.

How do these medical schools apply ”context” ”to every single school in the Uk and the many applicants from abroad ? And how can applicants and schools get access to this information, as they can with other contextual offers ?

I very much doubt many if any Universities look at which school applicants go to, once they've checked their contextual offer list (which is a v v small sample - even Bristol have cut there's for next year). For some reason some private schools think that all state schools get lower grades or an easier ride, which is a lot of twaddle. Most medical schools are very transparent about how they select for interview and offers usually then based on these. A lot don't read PS as they know some schools 'help' a lot. It comes down to having the grades and acing the tests. That's it. No magic formula, no need to do 4 A levels (Admissions tutors at open days were adamant they didn't count a 4th, but one did say it might be used as a final tie breaker if too close between 2 candidates).

Better to get 3 As and have a life.

I'm not referring specifically to medical schools but if you want to know more about context, perhaps e-mail the admissions people at your uni of choice and ask what they do with the reams of data about school performance etc etc etc etc available to them. Obviously, a pupil advantaged by his or her education is going to be judged against that advantage. That's perfectly fair. Context doesn't start at some random mid-point of the performance table.

mumsneedwine there's no single rule applicable to all medical schools and the key thing of course is to have a life but it's a false premise to assume doing four A levels rather than three will limit that life and if a student can get top grades in all, doing an additional subject they enjoy, demonstrating an ability to juggle workload and the rest of life (as medics have to do), then why not? It's not about the extra grade per se. A number of schools with a lot of experience do give the advice given to the OP. It's not in their interest to give that advice unless they have evidence that it helps in relation to the top medical schools, which is what OP's DC is aiming for.

I very much doubt they bother to look at any of it - how would they have the time to check every applicant against each individual school ? And this is about applying for Medicine where the procedures are made v clear by each Uni (& differ a lot between Unis). My comp kid had to fulfil the same criteria as her friend who went to a £30,000 a year school. Same grades, same UKCAT requirements, same interviews and same offers.

Contextual offers are a very different thing and used to help students gain access to Uni from backgrounds that make it harder. It is harder to get an A from a class of 26 and 8 teaching hours a fortnight rather than a class of 4 and 10/12 hours.

I agree with mumsneedwine . If you can get/ likely to get 4A*/A and can still have a social life / play sport etc then do so otherwise stick to maxing out grades on the 3 A levels required by all and have a life . All the medic applicants from DD’s school this year will be taking up their places - which includes Ox Cambs UCL and Imperial - out of the double figure number of applicants only one sat and passed 4 A levels and that was Maths yr 12 and the other three at one sitting this Summer .

Oh and one thing Medical schools do like is a part time job. A few Admissions tutors said they thought working at McDonald's
was better that hours of shadowing (daddy).

My DS applying for medicine also had the same interviews and the same standard offers. That's not the point. You've no way of knowing who wasn't given an offer because their application or performance at interview didn't match up to their advantaged education.

I wasn't taking about contextual offers but about context.

I don't disagee bengalcat. I'm merely saying that if a kid can do it all, then that demonstrates something of value. Also that those coming from top schools need to be aware that the bar may be somewhat higher for them at the top medical schools, which is the schools' perception.

At interview , in my experience , looking at applications apart from an occasional dropped grade at GCSE nothing really stood out to differentiate between applicants . Many are likely to have more than one interview and offer .