How do you feel about unconditional offers?

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I'd be really interested to get views on this! Do you see unconditional offers as a stress-relieving positive, or as a sign that institutions are desperate and grabby?

I work in a RG university that doesn't offer unconditional offers. This is not something we have any control over in departments - it's a policy that is centrally set. Many other universities in the same disciplinary field do make unconditional offers, and we've noticed a slight drop-off in the number of acceptances we've had this year, with some of those students opting to take up an unconditional offer at a rival institution, despite the fact that we score more highly as a department on research, student satisfaction etc. My tentative hunch is that this is possibly a direct result of this policy (though of course there are many factors in a big decision like this!).

I was wondering about your perceptions as parents. What are the pros and cons? What should we be thinking about in relation to this policy?

I don't really have any strong feelings, btw - it would just be really helpful to canvas your opinions so that I can get a sense of how this feels from the 'other' end. We really just want to develop a policy that works for students, at the end of the day.

One in four teenagers handed unconditional offers, without grades, in 2018

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/unconditional-offers-universities-ucas-a-level-grades-teenagers-school-leavers-a8463736.html%3famp

What if the student gets an unconditional on predicted grades but doesn’t get the grades needed?

An unconditional places means it is unconditional. So even with EEE, for example, they get the place. With an unconditional, no ‘grades’ are needed.

I think MN parents place great emphasis on course and ranking plus satisfaction tables but lots of people don’t! They want a certain university experience and if it’s not RG, it won’t matter too much and it’s probably offering many unconditional which many parents believe is a prestigious offer. They don’t see it as marketing and financially imperative for the university.. Then they don't see it in the eyes of the employer, which is ultimately what it is about.

UC are based on predicted grades and Predicted grades are more often wrong than right. So that makes UC a bit of a joke.

There is way too much guesswork and gambling involved in applying to Uni ( admittedly less so for the top Unis and top students ). The current system is completely unfair and non-transparent.

The whole process needs to be changed so that students apply to university with there results in hand. It would take out the guess work for all involved.

Also in Scotland. Most of my friends have unconditionals based on their 5th year exam results. Some go to uni as young as 16 We do however do 4 year degrees in Scotland too, some may consider our first year a foundation year.

Shhh You'll be pleased to know that the whole process is being reviewed.

Indeed - more in the news today about the review. Suggestions that timetabling changes might be needed to the dates of exams and results if the system were to change to post results applications. It would be interesting to know how other European countries organise things - maybe some Euro mners can comment?

The review is only England focused I think - arrangements are devolved to Wales, NI and Scotland (which I know is different anyway as you have Highers and advanced Highers!)

I think the reason conservatoires, drama courses (and art degrees) may give more UCs is that they assess by audition as another pp has said, or art portfolio. A level grades are not exactly irrelevant to ability, but maybe much less important than the other assessments. I see them as a slightly separate category (and have a feeling conservatoires/drama schools are outside the 'usual' arrangements?)

My daughter was given an unconditional for law from reading. She preferred a Russel group who gave her a conditional so declined reading.

It caused a lot of stress. Because she needed three As for the uni she went to, so clearly declining reading was a big decision.

Ultimately she was fine, she achieved what she needed to, but I think the unconditional added to her stress levels, as she was constantly thinking if she had done the right thing, and it put additional pressure on her.

I don't think they are a good idea.

Whichever system is in place the universities will look to 'game' it. They are businesses and need to secure the income stream as early as possible.

Also putting university applications back to after results wont remove stress. Instead it could create a very pressured period with lots of students making decisions about courses/institutions with far less time to reflect.

I think the current situation could be improved with a lot more transparency about what grades are actually accepted for courses. Many institutions ask for say AAB but in reality accept BBB. This should be made clear to students. Knowing that your preferred institution will accept lower grades than the offer may make a lot of students more willing to accept conditional offers confident that a wobble on exam day hasnt blown their chances.

Institutions could also be made to accept a financial penalty for making UC offers. This could be say 10% of course fees per accepted UC offer. This way universities would have to decide whether UC offers were worth a reduction in course fee revenue.

I've only skimmed the thread so apologies if this point has been made - many of my other criticisms of UCs have been made already.

The massive difference between the two or three E offers in the past (seen as tantamount to unconditional for a bright student) is that they were simply that, not 'unconditional if firmed'. It's the 'if firmed' which makes the current trend particularly unacceptable as it places pressure on the applicant to put it first even if it's not the best possible course for them, either in terms of ranking or content. If UCs were even slightly being done in the interest of the student, they'd be unconditional if chosen as the insurance too.

Getting rid of AS exams is looking more and more like a major error. In terms of the current system relying on dodgy predicted grades, students do of course have the option of doing a gap year (ideally working or doing something subject-relevant) and applying with grades in hand. This is quite common among med/vet students already.

As a teacher I hate it as the kids completely take their foot off the gas and don't achieve what they are capable of - they don't understand that A levels are still important in the long term and used to compare you to your peers at interviews etc.

I'm also not keen on UO as a teacher - definitely see students not trying as hard after receiving them.
However, I do like it that AS were stopped as it gives more teaching time in year 12.
In Germany exams are taking slightly earlier and are then, teacher marked and moderated so that results are known about a month later and that gives time for students to go through applying for university.
There is also no central place distribution system for places, unis handle their own which also makes it more flexible.

Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who took the time to respond. I really appreciate it. Much food for thought here!

And no, not that 1960s university in the Midlands!!

Of course, CatapultingCookies. I agree with you but many parents think unconditionals are prestige and don’t understand that they shouldn’t be seen as this at all.

I think MFL is very open to unconditionals given the lack of students doing MFL at A level. I would have thought MarchingFrog’s DD was a shoe in for a French degree!

There are loads of infilled courses in RG universities and they are not all reserved for overseas students. The need for overseas students is about money. Home students still have many RG courses in clearing! The universities probably won’t be too demanding of grades either. It’s not all bleak and DC have quite a lot of options rather than take the unconditional from a not so good university if they, ultimately, want to change.

Infilled? Unfilled.

teacher marked and moderated in Germany! If only that much trust was placed in teachers in the UK.

Depends on the kid.
My 2 had unconditional offers and accepted them. In the case of ds2 it's given him more confidence.
I don't have a problem with it.

There are major issues with tertiary education in many countries. The UK is relatively strong. Problems elsewhere include:

US Universities essentially give unconditional offers. As a result some claim not much work happens in the final year of school.

In many European countries the norm is to go to your local University. Anyone who gains high school graduation can enter any degree. Which can mean massive numbers in lectures in the first year, especially on for medicine, then a great cull. The idea that if you are accepted on a course you are expected to be able to complete it is one reason why studying in the UK is popular.

Ireland manages it, but perhaps because it is a small country. You gain points for school exams: Irish leaving cert, IB, A levels, and perhaps for a subject specific aptitude test. You put your favoured Universities in preference order. For medicine (which is what we looked at) Universities work out a cut off based on places and applicants. Very good scores get you into Trinity, good but not great get you into Galway. The whole thing happens more or less overnight after Irish results come out, but you have a pretty fair idea in advance what you might need. No interviews nor personal statements, though no obvious reason why for some courses scores for these could not be added to scores for aptitude tests.

Mixed feelings. Older 2 at uni before unconditional were common. Youngest had one unconditional. It was really positive for her and boosted her confidence loads. She didn’t accept it but was happy to have it. She got her grades and int 1st choice

No interviews for medicine in Ireland is interesting need - I think the same is true in Germany? I would love to know if there's any research on whether outcomes are better/worse.

Absolutely no axe to grind at all as have never had nor will have a dc applying for medicine, but I wonder if the cost/benefit of the use of resources/professional input, and demand on students, of face to face interviewing, mmi-ing etc has been assessed at some point. Are docs in Germany/Ireland better/worse/different, without interviews? (Am I right that Edinburgh doesn't interview?)

I also work for a central London RG. No uc offers except when someone applies a year after they have completed a levels or the IB and already have their results in which case they get a straight offer

DD1 was given an unconditional offer from Birmingham, as was everyone who applied in her year (!), it since seems to be the norm. No-one accepted them though, so it doesn't seem to helping whatever agenda B'ham has. DD also turned down S'Hampton which offered reduced fees for meeting certain grades, although this system is perhaps better, as at least encourages continued work ethic.

Teacher and parent of a DD with an unconditional offer, so I can see advantages & disadvantages. DD's offer was originally AAA, but if she made it her firm choice, it went unconditional. However, since accepting, they have offered her around £4k if she gets at least 4B grades - this has had the effect of keeping her nose to the grindstone during revision and exams as it will cover her 1st year accommodation costs. I have seen students slack off at work; this is most definitely not the case with DD.

This institution may not be as prestigious as the one which offered her A*AA but so late in the day that all the offer-holder days were fully booked or had passed. We went to the U/O place to look at the accommodation on spec and had a 2 hour guided tour by the manager. DD is a good singer and although not applying for music wants to sing regularly so had an informal audition at the cathedral in the U/O city, where the DoM said she's be welcome in any choir he ran. All these things added together, plus the friendly and welcoming nature of everyone we met there, have led her to this choice.

DD has an unconditional offer from the uni that she has selected as her first choice. We encouraged her not to take that into account when choosing as she is reasonably bright and we thought that she would probably get into the whichever she chose.
She felt that the uni really want her to go there and that influenced her choice. The uni encourages students to still study hard and do well at A levels by offering quite generous financial incentives/rewards for high achievement. Tbh DD is the kind of girl who will try her hardest anyway, but it will be very nice if she does qualify for a reward.
DD was put off one Uni when she realised that another applicant had an UC but she didn't.
Another factor is that the uni guarantee first or second choice of accommodation to UCs which she viewed as another positive.
I am really happy with the choice that she has made as they genuinely seem really keen to have her there - the professor who interviewed her sent a really nice email afterwards and all correspondence has been spot on.

(Am I right that Edinburgh doesn't interview?)

They didn't. They will this year. On the other hand, Bristol will no longer interview vets this year.

There are downsides to interviews, more in terms of the cost to applicants and the difficulty of comparing 17-year-old boys' potential with that of 17-year-old girls, never mind 24-year-old women.

However, the risk of students getting two thirds of the way through a course before it becomes apparent that they are totally unsuited to a patient-facing role is too high for most medical, dental, physiotherapy or nursing courses to want to abandon interviews.