How do you feel about unconditional offers?

[verticality]

I'd be really interested to get views on this! Do you see unconditional offers as a stress-relieving positive, or as a sign that institutions are desperate and grabby?

I work in a RG university that doesn't offer unconditional offers. This is not something we have any control over in departments - it's a policy that is centrally set. Many other universities in the same disciplinary field do make unconditional offers, and we've noticed a slight drop-off in the number of acceptances we've had this year, with some of those students opting to take up an unconditional offer at a rival institution, despite the fact that we score more highly as a department on research, student satisfaction etc. My tentative hunch is that this is possibly a direct result of this policy (though of course there are many factors in a big decision like this!).

I was wondering about your perceptions as parents. What are the pros and cons? What should we be thinking about in relation to this policy?

I don't really have any strong feelings, btw - it would just be really helpful to canvas your opinions so that I can get a sense of how this feels from the 'other' end. We really just want to develop a policy that works for students, at the end of the day.

[Nextphonewontbesamsung]

My dd got an unconditional offer to do her first choice course, the one she wanted to go on from more or less her first day at school. It is one of those famous ones and she had to submit an additional piece of work for consideration.

Of course a "friend" of mine poo-pooed this with a "isn't it awful how they hand out unconditional offers willy nilly these days".

I doubt my dd could have worked harder for her A levels. I am just so pleased for her that she got this place she's always dreamed of. Fingers still firmly crossed for Thursday!

[MamaGee09]

My son has just finished 6th year at school however got 2 conditionals and2 unconditional going by his 5th year exam results, one of his unconditionals was his first choice and as soon as he received that he switched off, no homework was done , no studying was done, he did get 1 A and 3B’s however he had worked hard enough in 5th year to be accepted on those grades.

So for him it was good to have the unconditional but I feel if he had conditionals he would have worked a bit harder at school .

[MarchingFrogs]

If they are not for a bums in seats reason; how to you decide how to chose who gets the unconditional offer?

The department from which DD has accepted hers bases their decision on predictions of AAA or above, for a course with a typical offer of AAB. I know this, because it's what I was told at the applicant day. I was also told that the general experience is that applicants meet their predictions. DS1, who also accepted an unconditional from the same institution but a different department, certainly did, getting the same grades as his friend whose department (much to his mum's annoyance, I seem to remember) didn't make pre-results unconditional offers.

I would also think that in the current climate, it would be easy to pick up a place from these institutions in clearing.

But possibly not so easily from Birmingham, as evidenced by the PP who had checked the number of courses currently available in Clearing?

(@verticality you're not at a 1960s place in the Midlands, are you?).

[SoonerthanIthought]

Yes Marching, very few courses in clearing at Birmingham at the moment - though I suppose the lists might change before Thursday?

(Not sure how the lists can change at this stage - but maybe if a university gets fewer insurance students than expected, perhaps because those students' firm choice universities decide to drop their grades for those who have missed them? Presumably there is quite a knock on effect. Though - nailbiting - most of those decisions have been made by now?)

[justasking111]

Eldest DS started his degree in 1998 60 students on the course, in the final year 16 were left to sit their finals. This was before unconditionals were given out. So I would not worry too much about dropping out it happens.

[SirTobyBelch]

The department from which DD has accepted hers bases their decision on predictions of AAA or above, for a course with a typical offer of AAB.

Why is someone with predictions of AAA more deserving than someone with predictions of BBB? There's no connection between predicted grades and actual grades. I could (but obviously won't) name a school where predicted grades for science subjects, at least, will almost always be correct to within 1 grade. I could name several others where students with AAA predictions are as likely to achieve CCD as AAA. Why should someone from the former school with an ABB prediction not get an unconditional offer while someone from one of the latter schools does get one with an AAA prediction?

[Piggywaspushed]

As I mentioned on another thread , there are places at Birmingham (and other RG unis) but The Times reported , these are being held for Overseas students. Smoke and mirrors.

[ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords]

This is what the universities say, but it's nonsense. The fact that they are predicted AAA doesn't mean anything, anyway. And students with unrealistic AAA predictions are no more likely to work hard (or to achieve high grades) than people with BBB predictions. Many schools provide the predictions that the students require to be considered for their chosen course. In fact, from going through this year's results for our offer-holders over the past couple of days, I'd say the majority do.

Well I assume that those given UOs will also have a good set of GCSEs with lots of A/A*s, so have already proved they are a high attainer, and that there is no reason to think that their predicted grades have been inflated.

[ChloeDecker]

Well I assume that those given UOs will also have a good set of GCSEs with lots of A/As, so have already proved they are a high attainer,*

Sadly not the case always. Most of my experiences (and there have been many in the past few years, as an A Level subject teacher and a Year 13 Form Tutor) have been universities offering unconditionals on predicted grades of Cs or below and GCSEs of Bs and Cs or 5s (numbered grades only just coming through for more subjects). A lot of the universities are those desperate for numbers (not Russell group or ‘red brick’) and the ‘arts’ such as conservatoires and theatre based degrees.

[Hundredacrewoods]

I think that if a student’s class attendance etc. ‘torpedoes’ after receiving an unconditional offer then maybe they’re not university material. Students who do well at uni are self-motivated, want to learn, and would want to be as prepared for the course as possible by actually knowing their A level subject material.

[Ragwort]

I’m not sure that’s true Artie, my DS got 3 UO offers & he’s got a very modest set of GCSEs with absolutely no A/A* predictions.

He decided to reject the UO offers in favour of an offer from a Uni with a ‘better’ reputation. Interestingly, his insurance offer contacted him after A levels were finished to say his place was now unconditional, whatever his results. So if he doesn’t get to his first choice at least he know he can get straight into his insurance choice even if he hasn’t met those grades.

[Fifthtimelucky]

Very few universities audition for traditional music degrees (from memory, only Oxbridge, Manchester And York. Durham and Bristol don't). All the conservatories do, obviously. My daughter had unconditional (if firm) offers from Birmingham and Nottingham with no auditions. She turned them down, though she really liked the Birmingham course and it ended up as her reserve option.

Younger daughter also applied to Birmingham, which she also loved, and I think if they had made her an unconditional offer she'd have accepted it as she was much less confident that she would get the grades she needed for the standard offer. However, they don't make them for her course, so she didn't get one.

I don't approve of unconditional offers in principle, but we were both very stressed this time last year and an unconditional offer would definitely have taken the pressure off.

[ChloeDecker]

I think that if a student’s class attendance etc. ‘torpedoes’ after receiving an unconditional offer then maybe they’re not university material.

I absolutely agree.

However, it is a shame that these very students do get university places and either drop out in a year or so, wasting everyone’s time or get degrees (of varying results) but the universities will complain about the calibre of students they have and what school has failed to deliver, the Secondary teachers will be scrutinised on their ‘failure’ of results, schools will have their OFSTED ratings affected but seemingly, universities still offer the unconditionals because they are desperate for numbers for their funding.

Courses have been cancelled even before the UCAS deadline in my experience, so it is an understandable fear from the university’s point of view. I just wish the current trend for offering more than they used to, is curtailed very soon.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Dd got 4 unconditional offers and never heard back from her 5th choice at all! However if she had got some conditional and some unconditional it might have affected her choice. I'm sure she still wouldn't have picked a course if it had seemed much worse in some way to a course where she had only got a conditional offer but if the courses had been quite close in her mind then she may well have picked the unconditional over the conditional even if she had liked the conditional slightly more.

One of her teachers was pissed off about unconditionals being handed out. Dd swore she was still going to work just as hard because she was worried when job hunting after her degree it wouldn't look good to have bad a-levels.

Then it turned out she got really poorly, spent quite a bit of time in hospital and has had a 55% attendance rate for year 13. Which she has been distraught about. I'm now very thankful for that unconditional offer. She may well fail all her exams.

As a parent it doesn't make me think a university is desperate. I did scour all the stats I could find for the different uni courses to compare. So stuff like attrition rates, staff to student ratio,.....that made more of an impression on me.

Dd was more swayed by well organised open days, nice facilities and friendly staff. She came close to choosing a course ranked 35th in the subject over one ranked 7th just because she preferred the staff on the open day and thought the studios were nicer. But the attrition rate was something like 30% compared to 6%, which was a big red flag to me. So in the end she picked the higher ranking course with the lower attrition. But do all students look this information up? Do all parents?

[Teddybear45]

Unconditional offers tend to be reserved for those courses that probably don’t need more than a minimum level of GCSEs to start - usually ones with a foundation year that will get the students up to snuff on the subjects that are required for them to succeed. I know a lot of unis offer uncond for STEM courses and these courses can often be more difficult because more emphasis is put on 1st year grades which often tend to be low due to freshers finding their feet.

[ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords]

Sadly not the case always. Most of my experiences (and there have been many in the past few years, as an A Level subject teacher and a Year 13 Form Tutor) have been universities offering unconditionals on predicted grades of Cs or below and GCSEs of Bs and Cs or 5s (numbered grades only just coming through for more subjects). A lot of the universities are those desperate for numbers (not Russell group or ‘red brick’) and the ‘arts’ such as conservatoires and theatre based degrees.

Sorry probably not clear, but I was referring back to my previous post, and another poster's response, which was regarding UOs for those with high predicted grades from RG universities, not the 'bums on seats' offers from lower ranking places.

[PickAChew]

Over 30 years since I had an unconditional offer but I took it as a rather inconvenient insurance offer (only reason I listed the uni in the first place)

[PickAChew]

That was for medicine. Things have no doubt changed, since then.

[pumpkinpie01]

My DD has an unconditional which was at her first choice uni and was given based on her portfolio.It made no difference to her revision as she still wants to know she tried her best as she only gets this once chance. It's took so much pressure off , she is in a group chat for the halls , met a girl at the open day whom she clicked with and they have met up since. She has really been able to enjoy her summer with no stress and worry hanging over her.

[PickAChew]

And back when i applied, Cambridge used to give unconditional offers, so long as you passed the entrance exam.

[ChloeDecker]

Thinking about it further, and it has been pretty much boys in my experience, who have slacked off after getting an unconditional offer. I really mean no offence to anyone and I do know we shouldn’t stereotype but it may be interesting to the OP and their research.

[MamaGee09]

In Scotland an unconditional offer is given if the student has met the stated criteria from previous exam results from reading these posts it seems it’s different in England and an unconditional is based on predicted grades. Or am I picking that up wrong?

This year my friends dd had been given a conditional but had to get 2 B’s to meet the criteria which thankfully she did and then accepted the place.

[ChloeDecker]

You are not picking that up wrong Mama-since the demise of AS exams in England and Wales, so no Year 12 public exams for most subjects because of the new Linear qualifications, predicted grades are all subjects can pretty much be given nowadays!

[MarchingFrogs]

Unconditional offers tend to be reserved for those courses that probably don’t need more than a minimum level of GCSEs to start - usually ones with a foundation year that will get the students up to snuff on the subjects that are required for them to succeed.

International Relations with French in DD's case, so of course, only requiring a bare scrape in GCSE French and no one takes any notice of the scare stories about sixth form students choosing not to continue with MFL to A level because of the (high) level of difficulty.

DS1's subject was Biochemistry. Inconveniently requiring good A level passes in those easy-peasy science subjects for which schools set a high bar for for continuing to A level just because they can't be bothered actually to teach. Naturally.

[MamaGee09]

Wow, I’m glad we are in Scotland it seems more sensible way to do it all. Giving an unconditional on predicted grades makes no sense at All. It’s like just giving places away.

What if the student gets an unconditional on predicted grades but doesn’t get the grades needed?