How do you feel about unconditional offers?

[verticality]

I'd be really interested to get views on this! Do you see unconditional offers as a stress-relieving positive, or as a sign that institutions are desperate and grabby?

I work in a RG university that doesn't offer unconditional offers. This is not something we have any control over in departments - it's a policy that is centrally set. Many other universities in the same disciplinary field do make unconditional offers, and we've noticed a slight drop-off in the number of acceptances we've had this year, with some of those students opting to take up an unconditional offer at a rival institution, despite the fact that we score more highly as a department on research, student satisfaction etc. My tentative hunch is that this is possibly a direct result of this policy (though of course there are many factors in a big decision like this!).

I was wondering about your perceptions as parents. What are the pros and cons? What should we be thinking about in relation to this policy?

I don't really have any strong feelings, btw - it would just be really helpful to canvas your opinions so that I can get a sense of how this feels from the 'other' end. We really just want to develop a policy that works for students, at the end of the day.

[SoonerthanIthought]

Thanks sirtoby - interesting that Edinburgh has decided to interview now. Have they said why they've changed their approach?

Yes, very expensive to have people dropping out of medicine and healthcare courses - I can see universities would want to try very hard to minimise that. It would be interesting to know if the Ireland system - no interviews, highest marks gets the place, from what another pp has said - has a higher drop out rate? That would be fairly easy to measure I suppose.

[juicy0]

My DC is awaiting results tomorrow. She received unconditional offers from 3 universities and accepted the one from the uni she most wanted to go to based on the course content and fee of the uni itself from our visits.
Initially I was very cautious as I'd read numerous articles about the negatives related to unconditional offers but I have to say I think it's been a good thing.
My DC is anxious about her results but isn't anywhere near as stressed as many of her friends who have conditional offers with high grade requirements. She didn't take her foot of the pedal in terms of exam prep and revision and was still keen to get the best grades she possibly could. She is relieved that she isn't having to prepare for clearing should things not go her way or having to make last minute decisions about accommodation or uni that may not have been her preferred choice.
It has allowed her to apply for and secure her preferred choice of accommodation and make firm plans which has resulted in a well organised but laid back summer for her. She has been put in touch with another couple of students in her accommodation via a Facebook group and so she is looking forward to meeting them and moving in.
So whilst tomorrow's results won't change her plans she wants them to reflect the effort she put in and be proud of her achievements.

[ChloeDecker]

Very interesting that most of the posters who think unconditionals have worked well for their children, have talked about their daughters. I am very interested to hear from any posters with sons, where it has worked out well. In my experience as a teacher, it is boys who it negatively affects more (and let’s see tomorrow what some of the grades are or posters who think unconditionals are great)

[Needmoresleep]

SirToby thanks. Interviews will never completely filter out those who will not make good doctors, but that it is interesting that medical schools feel it is worth the cost.

The other factor which will have affected Edinburgh will have been the fee issue. I confess the only people we have known over the past few years, who went there, were London raised kids who managed to claim they were EU/home, thus did not have to pay fees. Not people who would are likely to want to be GPs in the Highlands and Islands.

I don't know about the German system but the French sounds horrific. We know three people who went. One was not particularly academic, so joined the first year cattle charge then got turfed out. A second applied in parallel for a deferred place in Ireland as insurance in case she did not make the cut in France at the end of her first year (she did) and after not gaining a place in the UK. The third, British but raised in France was very academic so was managing her course with ease, but described the stress that some of her peers were under, having to pull out all the stops to slog to pass each year.

The tight course numbers in the UK not only means that if you start you are likely to finish, but also that our students can expect to finish AND to get training places. This is an issue in places like Greece, and particularly places like Malaysia where private colleges are pumping out med students, some of whom may not make good doctors, and who are scrambling to find FY1/FY2 posts. (Our spare bedroom seems to have been booked by a friend's son who has been doing his clinical in Ireland and is hoping to then move onto the UK.)

A complete thread diversion, though perhaps an example of where selection using broader criteria is important.

[LoveGrowsWhere]

I believe in Canada, due to distances. interviews are online not in person. Not sure why this hasn't taken off here?

[Needmoresleep]

Lovegrows, Skype interviews are already common for international students and many/most courses dont interview. An interview is a valuable chance for a student to see the University, especially when, like my daughter, they have not been able to get to open days. I think it would be a pity is they were expected to either go to loads of open days when the reality for med applicants is one or two interviews only, or expected to accept a course without visiting. Bizarrely a lot of Canadians choose to study medicine in thd UK or Ireland so their system cannot be that perfect.

[berlinbabylon]

I may fundamentally misunderstand how unconditional offers work but in my day Oxford used to give EE offers to people who'd passed their entrance exams. A girl in my school got one (and got 3 As). Nobody claimed the quality of Oxford's courses or intake was adversely affected (well perhaps they did but I didn't hear it).

In most cases I think people want decent A level grades and the UC just provides a safety net. I can't really see the point of them but don't really understand the opprobrium either.

[ChloeDecker]

berlinbabylon

Unconditional offers don’t work that way anymore sadly. There are many issues that currently need debate:

Students possibly picking the wrong course for them, just because they want a UC.

Students taking the foot of the pedal and aiming low.

Schools results negatively affected, which has a knock on effect on OFSTED, parental reputation, teacher performance management and budgets.

Universities gaining students who have not performed well at A level so affect their ratings (but at least they get bums on seats)

And so on.

Sadly, of the students in my current year 13 class, who received UCS this year, not one has achieved what they were capable of (not even any B grades or above) and one achieved a U grade because they handed in no coursework and bombed in both papers. All achieved well at the end of Year 12, so I am gutted for them and my department.


Yep. I still bloody hate unconditional offers.

[LoveGrowsWhere]

NeedMore Not suggesting anything is perfect but was thinking it could save time/money. I think the Canadian system is almost worse than ours as offers are made on predictions and they don't have national exams at 16 as a supporting indicator.

[GnomeDePlume]

ChloeDecker my view is that there should be a two pronged approach:

1. More transparency for students about what grades will actually be accepted rather than universities inflating grade requirements then having a fire sale late in the process. Much better for students to know that they will be able to get on their preferred course if they drop a grade than to worry and end up accepting a UC offer for the security.
   
   2)I think the only way to force universities to reconsider UC offers is to put a financial penalty on it. A 10% reduction in fee revenue for each UC offer accepted would soon have them reconsidering whether the extra students were worth it if they could have filled the place by being transparent from the outset.

[ChloeDecker]

Very sensible GnomeDePlume!

[Danglingmod]

Ds had an unconditional and achieved his (high ish) predicted grades (and nearly exceeded two but not quite).

Headmaster said today that it was 50:50 who had slacked off with unconditionals and who hadn't and it wasn't necessarily only boys, I don't think.

[Prokupatuscrakedatus]

European MN here.
DD did the following:
She got her examn results in June.
She then applied online to the courses she wanted, filling in forms asking for her average score (in her case lowered because she has dyscalculia and you cannot escape maths), for experience in the field etc. , which involved much swearing because the interent never works when you need it to. The course had restricted access but they didn't tell you what they were looking for.
Last Frieday at four a. m. the e-mail came offering her a place.
She then had to accept online, cancel every other application and print out the forms attatched (acceptance and application) add an attested copy of her certificate showing all marks of her last two years, her examn results, her MFL levels and her average score, proof of health insurance and the receipt showing that she payed her semester dues (about 300 €).
As the course was restricted the deadline was shorter. So yesterday morning she went and delivered her documents personally - she didn't trust the post.
At the age of 8 I was told she'd never amount to much, in year 10 the career advisor hearing ADHS +dyscalculia told her basically to forget it. So I am feeling quite proud of her, but I can't say it publicly, so I say it here.

[PantsyMcPantsface]

I believe in Canada, due to distances. interviews are online not in person. Not sure why this hasn't taken off here?

I was applying as a mature student - to the next city across (I intend to commute daily) so not a big travel - but they sent me an interview invitation and were happy to do it either in person or via Skype to be convenient to me. They've also offered umpteen opportunities to go tour the campus as well on open days or offer holders days, or even just at a time arranged 1:1 - so plenty of chances to suss the place out - but the interview over the net was really helpful. It is, however one of those unis that would get MNers clutching their pearls in horror as it's an ex-poly so steps up the helpfulness to get students attracted to them (very few places do the course I want and the only other commutable one I really really disliked how they treated applicants on interview so didn't want to go there).

My offer was only conditional initially which amused me as there was all the media focus on unconditionals at the time and I was sat there with my a-levels and a previous degree still only holding a conditional offer until I'd cleared DBS and occupational health for the course (it's one of the old-NHS bursary courses)!

[LoveGrowsWhere]

Pantsy good luck with course. Great to learn a range of access opportunities offered.

[pointythings]

My DD had two unconditionals, one of which was for her firm choice. She'd already made it her firm and then her offer was made unconditional some 2 months later. She worked her socks off and got what she would have needed in any case, but it was good to have the unconditional as we had a major bereavement literally 10 days before the start of exams.

The one she turned down was of the 'make us your firm and we'll give you an unconditional offer' type and she wasn't impressed.