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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Elitism at Oxford

384 replies

piso · 09/05/2019 10:03

I thought I would post this, not to put people off, but rather to make them aware that Oxford isn't the bastion of egalitarianism that it claims to now be.

My Dd is in her first year at a well known Oxford college. It is an old prestigious one, that has a reputation for being particular pro state school.

In her year group, there is a clear clique of London schoolers, think St Pauls and Westminster. They tend to bother with one another only. "Do you have a place in London?" "I'm from London, smugly the middle bit" "Oh you're so South Ken"

Then there are the old Eton boys, Radley boys etc who seem to also stick to one another.

Private dining societies are still a big thing in Oxford. Whilst apparently they are open to non private school kids, you have to be invited and considered suitable. Ergo, those who come from certain families, went to certain schools.

Favourite activities are skiing and horses. Where are you going skiing this vac? Oh you don't ski? "Our family have known each other forever, we always ski together at Klosters"

DD's neighbour for example is a third generation Oxonian. She proudly caresses her signet ring when talking down to others. She said in freshers week that she'd only consider dating someone from Eton, or Harrow if she had to as she wants a husband like her dad. This girl didn't even get the entry requirements for her course, but after some negotiation got in.

My point being, far from reverse snobbery, is that there still is clearly a large group of hugely entitled people at Oxford. Being born wealthy is certainly none of their faults (nor is it a problem!). DH is from the boarding school type of family, but there seems to be a high preponderance of rich, London type who are keen on being exclusionary.

Never have I been asked in a snobbish way where I went to school, but dd has numerous times, and not in an interested way; a way to see if you are suitable for friendship.

Some friendship groups at her college this year were very much decided based on appropriate background. You get a tick if you're from London. A tick if you went to a select few schools. A tick if your parents know of one another. Another tick if you have a lodge somewhere too.

OP posts:
Dancingdreamer · 15/05/2019 14:49

BasilikStare - can I take you up on the offer of your son for my DD? She is still single so obviously not very good at these mating games! I am sure she will treasure a bowling cup!

TapasForTwo · 15/05/2019 14:49

I agree Maria. An awful lot of students I know seem to think that drinking, missing lectures, partying and indulging in a non stop hedonistic lifestyle at the expense of their education is a badge of honour.

I don't care what they get up to if it isn't hurting anyone else and but as a tax payer I resent subsidising those students who just want to party and don't bother doing any work and couldn't care less about getting a good degree.

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 14:54

I resent subsidising those students who just want to party and don't bother doing any work and couldn't care less about getting a good

Yes. And as parents we made it abundantly clear to our DC that if they didn’t work very hard at university they would be in deep trouble! No point coming home without a First Wink

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 15:06

I’m not sure why relationships and career goals are mutually exclusive

www.parismatch.com/Actu/Politique/Quand-Emmanuel-Macron-trop-amoureux-echouait-a-Normale-Sup-1190762

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 15:07

Sorry - missed out the Wink

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 15:12

I’m not sure that toy boy Emmanuel and pervert Brigitte are any kind of example for the mutual incompatibility of love and academic and career success Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2019 15:13

I don't care what they get up to if it isn't hurting anyone else and but as a tax payer I resent subsidising those students who just want to party and don't bother doing any work and couldn't care less about getting a good degree.

I don't think there's any of that type in DDs circle of friend and acquaintances.
Partying is planned for after exams! (Hence the 'may balls' being in June nowadays, of course).

TapasForTwo · 15/05/2019 15:50

Errol unfortunately DD knows quite a few who (IMO) only went to university to live it up. It is no coincidence that all the ones she knows who do so got there through clearing.

Stealth boast - DD didn't need clearing.

SoHotADragonRetired · 15/05/2019 15:52

I’m not sure why relationships and career goals are mutually exclusive in your student world, SoHotADragonRetired, nor why you should be so angry at the idea that students might be looking for long term and committed relationships as well as studying. The casual shag and heavy drinking culture that some students engage in is nothing to be proud of.

...dear God, it is literally like talking to the 19th century.

  1. I didn't say career goals and relationship goals were incompatible. I said most female students' relationship goals were "find a boyfriend I fancy/am genuinely happy with", not "bag a banker".
  2. Of course I'm not angry at the idea that students might pair up long term. I'm merely annoyed at your frankly bizarre casting of your DSSs as luscious bait to ravening hordes of female undergraduates you have wildly and insultingly stereotyped.
  3. I said students didn't go on dates, not that they didn't get serious. There isn't a "dating culture" at uni generally in the way there is with older adults. People just spend time together, sometimes seriously, sometimes not. Some of the shags are serious, some are casual, having an occasional drink at the college bar does not make you a fucking alcoholic, and having casual sex is nothing to be ashamed of, whether at university or elsewhere, as long as it's what you want.
TapasForTwo · 15/05/2019 16:03

Point 3) I would add, as long as they aren't cheating on their partner, and are doing it safely.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2019 16:07

Errol unfortunately DD knows quite a few who (IMO) only went to university to live it up. It is no coincidence that all the ones she knows who do so got there through clearing.

So not Oxbridge - I thought the purpose of this thread was specifically to cast aspersions at them! (Grin)

TapasForTwo · 15/05/2019 16:11

The thread went off st an angle so I decided to jump on the bandwagon Grin

I don't know anyone at Oxbridge.

HingleMcCringleberry · 15/05/2019 16:26

So not Oxbridge - I thought the purpose of this thread was specifically to cast aspersions at them! (grin)

ErrolTheDragon, thanks for this, I needed a good chuckle. Comment of the day!

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 16:59

Maria Aren’t you worried you will identify your dss with your posts?

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 17:00

Oh, I change a few details Wink

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 17:03

And, tbh, it’s not exactly as if there is anything to be ashamed of! Look at goodbyestranger - all her DC are super easy to identify but there’s nothing to be ashamed of.

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 18:43

Hmm well all that's known (if anyone is sufficiently interested to recall the details) is where my DC went to uni, what subjects they did and in some cases only, what profession they joined. I made sure throughout that I never named a DC's college while they were actually still at that college. Clearly certain people have figured out where they went to school but that's not a big deal. The one thing I've never done is to stray into any aspect of their private life or indeed mine. I don't therefore see any problem in their being 'identified' and on the basis that I post, they couldn't give a hoot either. I think I'd hold fire on claiming they were some major catch flaunting their wares to younger students (although of course I think they all are a good catch - excellent genes - even without the advantage of ' The Cheerful Sparrows' trophy Envy). I don't even change details - no point.

BasiliskStare · 15/05/2019 20:28

@dancingdreamer - I shall put your daughter's case forward - however if you were to see the Cheerful Sparrows' trophy - a bit dented but rather a lovely 1930 s design - she may wish to look elsewhere. Smile Great great grandparents were rich but in a way that they paid for the bowling pavilion rich rather than bought the town. Even that ( & I have looked down the back of the sofa ) seems to have been spent along the way
@goodbyestranger - not only do we have the Cheerful Sparrows trophy we also have a Georgian (style ) silver tea service which was also given to the winners. You see - utter elitism. Crown green bowling in a genteel town. It knocks St Moritz and polo into a cocked hat . That said DS's contemporaries do not seem to have realised this so he does not have a queue at the door of those wishing to entice him into an engagement Grin ( but some very nice friends. ) Some of his circle are partners now & indeed he went to the wedding of two of them last summer , but I think it was more of a thing of knowing people and deciding rather than "on the lookout"

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 20:56

Basilisk objection:

I do have a Silver cup from great great Grandad if anyone wishes to trophy hunt my son. It is for bowling.

Great great grandparents were rich but in a way that they paid for the bowling pavilion rich rather than bought the town.

not only do we have the Cheerful Sparrows trophy we also have a Georgian (style ) silver tea service which was also given to the winners.

So DGGGM and DGGGD paid for the bowling pavilion and then cheerfully awarded DGGGD not merely The Cheerful Sparrows bowling trophy but also a Georgian (style) silver tea service. I'm going to call foul.

BasiliskStare · 15/05/2019 21:50

@googdbyestranger Grin Grin I concede - bang to rights - & , worse , GGGF's house was made into a school ( a very small nursery / junior type one on a road rather than Stowe I hasten to add ) - but wherever they had their money it went long before my parents or grandparents ever had it. The Cheerful Sparrows trophies are what remains Smile Also - I have just checked and ( This may be why Ds has not been targeted by Bennet daughters ) the Georgian ( style ) tea set is silver plated not solid. I shall not be troubling the antiques roadshow if the wolf comes to the door.

DS did say though when I told him about about this post , in a laconic way , Not bad to target a banker - all the money & if you don't really like them , you probably won't have to see them very often

ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2019 23:54

DS did say though when I told him about about this post , in a laconic way , Not bad to target a banker - all the money & if you don't really like them , you probably won't have to see them very often

Especially if they're French?Grin

There probably should be a joke at this point about not touching a quant with a barge pole ...

OKBobble · 16/05/2019 09:18

Surely that should read punting pole?

HingleMcCringleberry · 16/05/2019 12:27

A quant is a barge pole is a punting pole - tautology abounds!

ErrolTheDragon · 16/05/2019 12:31

Hence the ellipsis, well done.Grin

RubberTreePlant · 16/05/2019 16:53

Can someone please put this thread out of its misery?

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