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Higher education

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Elitism at Oxford

384 replies

piso · 09/05/2019 10:03

I thought I would post this, not to put people off, but rather to make them aware that Oxford isn't the bastion of egalitarianism that it claims to now be.

My Dd is in her first year at a well known Oxford college. It is an old prestigious one, that has a reputation for being particular pro state school.

In her year group, there is a clear clique of London schoolers, think St Pauls and Westminster. They tend to bother with one another only. "Do you have a place in London?" "I'm from London, smugly the middle bit" "Oh you're so South Ken"

Then there are the old Eton boys, Radley boys etc who seem to also stick to one another.

Private dining societies are still a big thing in Oxford. Whilst apparently they are open to non private school kids, you have to be invited and considered suitable. Ergo, those who come from certain families, went to certain schools.

Favourite activities are skiing and horses. Where are you going skiing this vac? Oh you don't ski? "Our family have known each other forever, we always ski together at Klosters"

DD's neighbour for example is a third generation Oxonian. She proudly caresses her signet ring when talking down to others. She said in freshers week that she'd only consider dating someone from Eton, or Harrow if she had to as she wants a husband like her dad. This girl didn't even get the entry requirements for her course, but after some negotiation got in.

My point being, far from reverse snobbery, is that there still is clearly a large group of hugely entitled people at Oxford. Being born wealthy is certainly none of their faults (nor is it a problem!). DH is from the boarding school type of family, but there seems to be a high preponderance of rich, London type who are keen on being exclusionary.

Never have I been asked in a snobbish way where I went to school, but dd has numerous times, and not in an interested way; a way to see if you are suitable for friendship.

Some friendship groups at her college this year were very much decided based on appropriate background. You get a tick if you're from London. A tick if you went to a select few schools. A tick if your parents know of one another. Another tick if you have a lodge somewhere too.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 09:13

Maria I'm almost out of time but saying I'm narrow, even repeatedly, doesn't make it so. Duh.

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 09:14

I hope for their sakes that they have managed to escape their maternal clutches and can embrace the world in all diversity Smile

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 09:15

If you aren’t narrow minded, why do you defend such narrow minded views so strongly?

ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2019 10:30

Is there a bug in MN?
Maria seems to be seeing things in goodbye's posts which i can't. ConfusedGrin

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 10:30

The only rational explanation for all this craziness is that Maria was so disappointed when her DSS failed to get into Cambridge as an undergraduate she is now pinning her hopes on him marrying an undergraduate. The opportunities to mislead the people she mixes with, the financiers, diplomats and so on will be endless. When they ask, as surely they will ‘where did dss meet his wife’ the answer will be ‘when they were both students at Cambridge.’ There will be not a single mention of Bristol.

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 10:40

Neither of our DSSs applied to Cambridge as undergraduates. Both of them applied to Cambridge, Oxford, LSE and Imperial for Masters and both of them got accepted at all four. Cambridge was the obvious choice for both - the course met their needs best and they both got large bursaries, meaning it’s the cheapest option! Ad they got nice colleges. Bit of a no brainer - Cambridge is very welcoming!

HTH

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 10:43

So they didn’t have good enough grades to be accepted as undergraduates then?

velourvoyageur · 15/05/2019 10:47

So much of the time, money and passion that academic staff and students at Oxford pour (yes, pour) into Access and Outreach is literally being pissed away into the wind when they're working against people spreading these kind of super-confident, negative & totally unnuanced accounts (when they don't even go there and are therefore working from a frozen second-hand image). Such a shame. OP, hope you enjoyed your moment of being The One With a Child at Oxford.

Oh and 'favourite activities' are not horses and skiing. More like Plush, free punting and £2 pints at the College bar, hth.

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 10:52

velour Don’t worry too much. DS spent some time in a college recently and they honestly couldn’t have been more friendly and welcoming.

velourvoyageur · 15/05/2019 10:59

I'm glad he had a nice experience, but the thing is a lot of people aren't going to get to form a first-hand judgement of Oxford/College life, and for some of these it's going to be because they've been unnecessarily put off having any association with it all.

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 10:59

TBH, neither of them spoke English well enough at that point to contemplate the interview! Their quantitative skills have always been shit hot but they are French and had had all heir education in France.

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 11:09

So, they wouldn’t have got in then?

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 11:13

velour I don’t disagree. I have been on the rough end of snobbery many times and it’s tough. I did laugh when I went onto the website for DS’s favoured course and college and there were two male students having a tutorial and one of them was wearing red trousers. The ultimate posh boy clothing! I did wonder if they have thought through the messages they send out to prospective students...

BlackPrism · 15/05/2019 11:19

Well.... duh.

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 11:35

Cambridge Economics interviews are overwhelmingly about quantitative skills - the tutors care about little else (one of my DD's bfs was a young interviewing tutor at one of the big pretty colleges until he moved on, and spoke very freely about the experience :)).

I'm slightly struggling to buy the idea that these two global citizens, raised by an English stepmother, didn't have sufficient spoken English to tackle a quantitative based interview in December but were fine to start well regarded UK courses in Bristol/ London the following Sept.

Obviously this is way off the original thread, for which apologies.

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 11:50

You struggle with quite a lot of issues that involve international exposure, goodbyestranger. TBH neither of them spoke very good English when they started university - I don’t speak English to them and their parents and school were French. Neither of them even thought about applying to Oxford or Cambridge and they would most definitely have been unable to discuss anything quantitative in English at that point!

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 11:51

It doesn’t make any sense that they then got into Bristol Confused

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 11:54

Bristol and UCL had a much lower IELTS threshold than Oxford/Cambridge,.

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 11:57

I certainly struggle with bullshit Maria. Why not simply go to one of the Grandes Ecoles rather than Bristol or UCL? Confused

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 11:58

So they didn’t have the grades then?

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 12:00

Oxford and Cambridge have an annoyingly low threshold, which can frustrate other students in tutorials as the pace has to slow right down.

ineedaknittedhat · 15/05/2019 12:01

Look at Mansfield College if you want something less snooty. They have the highest intake of state school students and it's very welcoming and a bit more relaxed. Ds is there and he loves it and has made some nice friends.

MariaNovella · 15/05/2019 12:06

They both applied to prepa but decided to go to England - prépa is very tedious! DSS2 in particular, given the choice between Ginette and UCL, didn’t find it hard to choose central London over being locked up in Versailles!

howwudufeel · 15/05/2019 12:06

To be fair though Maria you obviously adore your dss, which is quite sweet.

goodbyestranger · 15/05/2019 12:14

Fair point howwudufeel but surely it's possible to combine fondness for DSSs (my sister adores hers too) without casting imputations on the entire female undergraduate population of Cambridge etc etc.

Why is it so tedious Maria, out of curiosity?

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