Can a full time mum do this?

[RobinHobb]

Right. Let me get this down and organise my thoughts. I'd really be grateful for input.

For ten years I've had a good well paying very competitive job. I've done well and been promoted consistently but been completely disinterested in it, just doing it because I had to.

My dream has always been to do a phd in a completely different field (biosciences) but it's never happened. After Dd1 I went back to the well paying high flying job and HATED being separated from her, and so after Dd2 when my employer offered me redundancy with a big pay out I took it with both hands. Now for the last two years I've been a SAHM to DC who are 3.5yo and 1.5yo. Because I was bored and I'm that kind of person I did some OU modules in my subject of interest and loved it.

Last month I applied for a MSc in biosciences at a top flight university in London, thinking nothing would come of it. They have replied and offered me a position this year...!!!

But here is the thing. DH and I agree we can pay for full time childcare while I do my degree out of the payout I got . Our current part time nanny is willing to go full time and the kids adore her. So that's good.

But our nanny can't drive so I would have to drop Dd1 to preschool (where she currently is) at 830 in the morning and pick her up 3pm, 4 days a week, and at 12pm 1 day a week to fit with the teaching time table in term 1. Term 2 is less contact time but I will need to do lab work for the dissertation so I'll still need to be away

I don't know if I can do it. I'll be surrounded by bright 20 somethings, and I'll be running back and forth to pick Dd1 up from preschool which is 90minutes commute away from uni so basically limited to three hours at the uni at any stretch. This is without reckoning with the shitty guilt fairy who will be telling me off for leaving the kids (dd2 still so young!) to pursue my stupid ridiculous degree.

Can I do it? Is it even possible with these constraints? I am feeling like it is impossible to do a MSc with these kind of restrictions. It's a tough course leading up to a phd. They won't do a part time course which would be ideal.

All thoughts and input welcome!

@Myfoolishboatisleaning
@LonelyTiredandLow

Maybe rather than just boasting how you managed your degree without any help, tell us how you managed it.
Did you have children who weren't in school?

Starting a thread asking if it is possible to do a degree with kids as a SAHM is one thing, drip feeding that you have a nanny, a house with a long drive way, can also afford an au pair, private school and taxis for over an hour drive daily is another.

Yes, I may sound bitter, it was very hard. I've mentioned 2 things I found particularly difficult that the OP won't even have to consider - it is not like for like.

It's not drip feeding if it's in the OP.

You do sound bitter. Do you have any advice for the OP or would just like us all to be very aware that your life was much much harder than hers?

Get a new nanny.
Make current one redundant on grounds the job no longer exists and is being replaced with a full time job where driving is essential.

I'm not sure what advice she needs - she keeps being told to get a new nanny because her one can't drive. Not exactly the point of a HE thread.

I was wondering why she doesn't go to Surrey instead of London, as most mature students with children use local Universities (for practical reasons) but nothing logical applies here.

@LonelyTiredandLow
I don't really understand where this is coming from. Let me ask: how did you manage? Were your kids at school? After school club? How did you manage pick up and drop off? You obviously didn't take them to attend lectures!
I'm sorry if the title of my thread mislead you, and I tried to give a clear picture in my op.
So you know:
My DH works late nights so he can't do nights with the kids if sick etc
The taxi run is twice a week to a school around 5 miles away. The rest of the week I'll have to fit around my time table. It's too expensive otherwise
We don't have a driveway or an au pair! Where is this coming from?
The nanny is 9 to 5, it's all we can afford and when timetable changes from term 1 to 2 it'll be tough. She has dc so isn't flexible about staying late
Well done on completing your degree, but I really don't think you did a full time degree with no child care even if that came in the form of school.

@LonelyTiredandLow
They don't have my degree at Surrey; and uni in London is highly rated for my degree. I'm just puzzled by your posts now..
re advice I have considered and am looking at all options; including nanny that can drive.
This is in HE because I felt it was about how to juggle school runs while doing HE.

From your post about car seat it sounded as though you have a long drive - I admit I made an error there.

I think the issue comes with being a SAHM with a nanny 9-5. You effectively have 2 adults looking after the kids all day so the title was indeed misleading. You have also said you would look into getting an au pair and the reason you can't use Uni childcare is because you have chosen private. Which is all fine, but it does mean you experience is not the "norm" for mature students.

Asking for help from lecturers who want you on the course is great, they will hopefully tell you when course timetables change and you can pass that to your nanny/au pair and you won't have any issues.

All you need to really do is turn up and study.

And yes I had to go on a waiting list for the after school club, which I managed to get in the last year of uni. Until then I had school 5 friends who I worked with on rotation doing morning drop off/pick ups on the days we could (together with a childminder who did half a term of pick ups for one of the years because the time table changed last minute), daughter came into 3 lectures and I got warnings for those and I had to miss 4 lectures over 3 years when she was sick. I couldn't attend extra events I could have used for employment and networking or do the extra awards and I wasn't able to do anything social to bond with my peers. My Uni also had lectures every Wednesday. I also had to pull DD out of music lessons because the time table changed so often I couldn't keep the teacher. The need for others to collect her meant she couldn't attend other after school activities until we finally got a place on the over-booked after school club for the last year of my Uni and even that didn't help with the 7pm lectures.

None of these typical issues mature students face will apply to you though so it's not really worth asking.

Why can the OP only ask for advice and for other people's experiences if she will have the "typical mature student experience"?

You just sound bitter and jealous. Why not encourage other women rather than tear them down just because you had it sooo much harder?

@LonelyTiredandLow
You do sound very resentful, so I don't think I'll engage any further on this.

I don't have a nanny 9-5 currently but will to cover my hours. You had after school club and school and friends covering so you also had childcare 9-5, no?

I don't have any friends or family to cover and I also have a baby/1.5 yo at home. I still have kids in the evenings (DH works nights) so won't also be able to attend a lot of the extra stuff, this I know. Mine also don't always sleep through the night so that's going to be hard,

I am not using the uni nursery because it's too far to drag the kids in on a 90 minute commute there and 90m back every day, but that's my personal stance on this.

Local nursery I am not using because I want dd1 place at private school to be assured. I'm afraid I can't apologise for sending her to private school if this also offends you - DH and I work hard for this. Nanny for two then works out cheaper.

Like I said I am not engaging further on this but thanks for your input so far. Hope your degree served you well and it was all worth it in the end.

You need a new nanny. And as far as I’m aware, rates of pay aren’t affected by difference between 1 child and 2 / need to drive. I guarantee she’ll be asking yyto cover costs of lessons and test too. If you’re vaguely rural, as the children get older you’ll need a driver anyway and I would be v reluctant to put my kids in he car with someone who’s only just passed the test - and the insurance cost on your car (because she’s hardly going to go out and buy one herself) will be thousands a year. Unless she is for some reason utterly brilliant and with all that hassle, I think you have a case for redundancy as the role has changed and she doesn’t have the qualifications for the new one

I do feel for you as I am well educated and have grandiose career ambitions but I have changed those ambitions a bit since becoming pregnant tbh. DD is 10 months and I'm currently applying for training contracts to study and train to be a solicitor, I currently work 30hrs a week as a paralegal. So I understand it's difficult to balance things and I only have one young DD. But I don't really believe the 'you can have it all' thing. Things are better than they used to be and women with caring responsibilities can maintain excellent careers with the right childcare and familial support etc but no matter what path anyone takes in life, there are always sacrifices to make - but that's true of any decision making in general, not just career choices when you have children, I suppose. You mention an indicative timetable but I think that's not very useful to you atm - an indicative timetable is just that, indicative and it is likely to change before and during your course. I've not long graduated from my undergrad and our timetables often changed from the indicative ones, and then you have to factor in other events that suddenly pop up - careers events, meetings with tutors, feedback sessions, career-linked extracurriculars...and don't forget your MSc is not just your contact hours, you will spend many many hours on top studying. Obviously some of this can be done when your DC are in bed, but not all of it. A full-time MSc just in terms of hours spent working on it (contact and non contact) could conceivably involve more hours than many full-time jobs! I'm not trying to put you off but I don't think you've really thought this through. You will probably need to spend significantly less time with your children, not just during weekdays but weekends too when you will need to bee studying at least some of the time, and this will be particularly so close to important deadlines. That's not necessarily a bad thing and lots of people do it and it has benefits to you and your family, the MSc - but it is the reality of the situation so you need to understand that before you make a decision. Personally if I had two children that young and close together I would wait a few years and then do it, the opportunity will arise again. Generally universities are dying to have MSc students because of the fees they receive, I don't know anyone who has done a masters degree who hasn't been accepted for the course they've applied to and I know a fair few people who have done masters. You could maybe look at a compromise of a similar course that you could part time somewhere too, that would suit you better?

@PurplePiePete
What you say makes sense; I have factored into our thinking.
But even with all the hassle, I think my preferred option is for current nanny to drive. This is not because she is the most best brilliant nanny in the world etc but she's good and reliable and most importantly I trust her. I could leave baby with her and dd1 and not worry she is not doing her absolute best and they are happy.... and that's why she is worth it for me. I've had a bad experience with a previous nanny when I went back to ft work after dd1 and so I guess I have some trust issues. So that's plan A. Nanny could drive in her home country many years ago so maybe not completely bat shit to think she can pass.
If this doesn't work plan B to revert to new nanny who can drive. I've advertised and got a few meetings lined up but will try closer to the time in June perhaps, many people changing nannies over the summer coming up to September. Plan C is this doesn't work and I can't find anyone is car seat and cab compromise. Next year Dd2 15 hours of childcare kick in, she can go to same preschool as dd1 who will be in reception - I will assess and worry about it all then. Hope I get a job!
Thank you!
I am really encouraged although very scared at the same time ...

@MeadowHay
I did consider deferring for a year but DH completely against that and for good reasons. I have a partial bursary which can't be deferred for one... but I could not agree more with your line of thought that something has to give and women can't have it all. I went back to work full time in finance/banking after DD1 in a senior role and the hours were torture, I missed her so much and the travel I kept refusing which didn't help my promotion prospects ultimately. But that's in the past.
Not being able to spend time with the kids in the same way will be awful but this is a good opportunity for me, I have been at home for two years with them which is a good long time and I do ultimately want to go back to work - even if we can afford it I don't want to sit around all day while the kids are at school.

I think I'm gong to take the plunge and do it this year. I may not come out the other side with a first like I did at undergrad but I hope it will still be worth it

Sorry I just realised I sound rather disparaging when I said "sit around all day" when kids are at school.... I didn't mean it that way, just that I need to get out of the house otherwise I can't function!

Would it not then make a lot more sense to wait until your eldest is in primary school, and your youngest in pre-school or whatever, if your concern is more about what you will be doing then? Sorry I'm not trying to sound unsupportive, but I really don't think this is a 'now or never' opportunity as you seem to be portraying it as, if you see what I mean. There will always be MSc places available - if you couldn't afford it without the bursary then I guess that's weighing more on your mind as that is less possible to guarantee later but given you're planning to send your children to private school I can't imagine funding one year of an MSc would be beyond your financial capabilities. Obviously it's up to you but I can't see what the major benefit is to doing it now as opposed to in a couple of years, and then you don't have all the associated stress and less time with little ones etc and also you're more likely to succeed and do better when they're bigger as less demands on your time, better sleep etc. I know everyone on here is encouraging and that's good to an extent but if you look at retention rates for mature students on uni courses it's waaaaay lower than the rest of the student population. Honestly I'm not trying to say you can't do it but for every person who manages to pass, many more have tried and didn't. And it's all about balancing the risks of that happening with what you could afford to lose/sacrifice etc and whether it makes sense to run those risks now or wait when it's less risky etc. I hope you get what I'm trying to say. And I really wish you all the best regardless and I'm sure you will do well professionally regardless

Inioneile, of course I don’t have any resentment about managing to do a degree in quite difficult circumstances, rather the opposite. I did an amazing job and am very proud of myself. I think I managed it because I took it all in my stride rather than worrying.

I was forced to take driving lessons as a 17 year old and hated every minute.

When I was 21 I booked seven lessons in seven days and passed, could you pay for a 1 week course if the current nanny is willing to learn to drive?
Can your dh do any drop off or pick ups?

Ah go for it.
There's loads of time for the nanny to pass her driving test by Sept if she's driven before, and just needs to brush up her skills. I'd jump at the chance to get my licence, paid for by an employer.
If she'll be doing more hours and putting in the effort to get her driving of course she should get a pay rise.
Good luck.

Get a new nanny that can drive.

Ultimately a nanny is a business deal- your career is important.
The current nanny will be gone in a couple of years anyway presumably.
Your kids will learn to be fond of e new nanny.

I’d go for it. I did degree plus masters with 2 under 5s at the beginning. It was doable. Fortunately the uni had a crèche/ nursery which I used for a year or two and was only a 20 minute train journey away. I didn’t go to any student social things, so missed out on that, and I did take them to a couple of lectures when pushed, we sat at the back with colouring books.

Go for it op - I am just at the tail end of a part-time MSC, working full-time. In fairness my kids are older 7/9 but we don't have any childcare and manage using school clubs.
I have loved studying it has been so much fun, met some lovely friends (a decade and more younger than me) and it has opened my eyes to my abilities to cope and juggle. Only regret is that I wish I had done it full time but finances didn't allow.

If you’re going to pay for the nanny to do it, make sure you sign a letter agreement with her relating to reimbursement of the expense of lessons and test if she leaves within 12 months - same as any other employer would

I really think you need a nanny that drives.

Go @RobinHobb

This sounds like a brilliant opportunity for you and I am so glad your DH is supportive. I'm sure you will as PP suggested breeze through the course as a super focused and organised mature student you are likely to do well.

Thinking about your logistics, I would be looking for potential new nannies and asking the current nanny what support she would need to make it work, in order to gain the full time position.

if our nanny doesn't want to get a license)

To make all this work, you will need a team around you who can work together. It makes very little sense for you have s full time nanny, and a full time masters course which you have to drop in order to do a school run

If someone on your team at work proposed that as a solution, wouldn't you ask them to think again?

By all means support the nanny with lessons to learn to drive and maybe provide a taxi for a week or two til she has done so but please don't think in terms of you picking up the slack for a nanny who 'doesn't want to drive'.

The nanny has dropped further in my estimation which the news that She has dc so isn't flexible about staying late

coming hard on the heels that she is asking for a pay rise while still not driving.

I'm now in favour of a nanny who is fit for purpose, whether this one agreeing to learn of another one that can already drive.

The request for a pay rise before learning to drive, not even tied to a promise to lead. would grate in me.