Oxbridge Jealously

[eginma]

I’m not sure if I just meet a fair amount of bat shit parents, or if it’s a wider problem..

DS is a 2nd year at Oxford, his choice, we didn’t force him into taking the offer.

Anyhow, ever since he got in, we’ve had snide comments such as
“They’re bending over backwards to let state schoolers in”
“What’s the point studying that? Why doesn’t he study Law/STEM?”

The best of all, my son got a call from Oxford on results day asking if he wanted a place for Economics, as he got AAA in his a levels, but he turned it down for Birmingham. My ds assures me from working as an admissions helper this is a load of tosh.

Why is it that other parents feel the need to be arsey about the whole thing? DS works in a public facing role and he’s now ashamed to say which uni he goes to if people ask ! He’ll skirt around the topic unless directly asked.

Back to the original OP, I agree it's just pure jealousy.

My dcs go to standard comp, although my eldest hasn't taken GCSE's yet. My friends DS has just got a conditional offer for Cambridge. The mother told in confidence, in a whisper as she didn't want to attract any attention. I'm genuinely over the moon for her ds and really hope she gets there (I'm certain he will as he's astounding).

I was genuinely pleased because as a school they have sent pupils to Oxbridge before but not in vast numbers. Was delighted to hear how much practice interviews etc the school did with him.

My dneices all went to Private school. One went to a RG uni and is now a civil servant, the second is at a non RG uni studying Engineering. The non RG group uni has the best record for employment places.
I went to an old Polytechnic to study Art and Design. I'm doing pretty well for myself too.

It's all horses for courses.

But the attitude you're finding OP is pure jealousy.

At our school I've been hugely impressed over the years by the magnanimity of those students who didn't get an offer towards those who did, including a good number of so-called dead certs who one would expect to be more disappointed than others. But then this seems a nice generation. It's the parents (on MN) who too often seem bitter; their DC are probably (hopefully) more mellow. But I haven't encountered any problems at all in real life, just really decent comments when a DC is successful. Perhaps it's much more evident among independent school parents. Since MN has a disproportionate amount of those that may play into the snippy stuff, bolstered by the anonymity.

Fazackerley marketing is a wonderful thing.

Yes sorry goodbyestranger I forgot it's not Oxbridge so what they say is irrelevant. Apologies.

Ok so there's a prime example of anti Oxbridge chippiness! Fazackerley I've not ever on any occasion claimed that Oxford and Cambridge are special on any marketing front so your comment is just completely meaningless I'm afraid.

I went to Oxbridge you ninny. You are awfully easy to wind up.

Yes, OP people may be a but jealous of your son, don't listen and enjoy.

It's worth repeating that dcs who do not go to RG unis get much worse thrown at them (at least on Mumsnet)

The "sour" (good word, goodbyestranger) comments are usually from those whose dcs either didn't get in or from those who had (misplaced) aspirations in that direction for their dcs.

I never say in RL where ds is studying unless specifically asked, but most people say something pleasant, but there are the odd ones who do the old "it's so nice they bend over backwards for state school pupils now" or "is that one of those new colleges?". Even had a "Do you think he'll manage amongst all those posh students?" and even worse (from sil) "I wonder if he'll feel embarrassed about you?"

But, when all's said and done, I don't care two hoots . Ds is at a lovely college enjoying himself immensely. Believe me, I am envious about some people's good fortune in a particular area of life, but I would never spit out a jealous comment. Rictus grin and "How lovely!" is the way to go.

Op - your son has done brilliantly, is feel pride that I know someone who has done so well. Very sad that other people cannot appreciate or respect others choices

My son didn't go to a highly rated primary or secondary, In fact because he was 'below expectations' he didn't get help or mentoring. But by year 9, he had developed focus, and came out with 10 A-C. Since then he has planned, researched his education and career path. He wants to go to Cambridge or St Andrews and study medicine.

Others have said he may not be able to, but I believe in supporting him - and yes he has backup plan.

Yes you've said that several times previously Fazackerley; it doesn't alter the chippiness, evidently.

Also, can I just let you know that I'm incapable of getting wound up on this subject above almost all subjects. I belong to the IrmaFayLear school of not caring two hoots :)

People perhaps get "arsey" if they interpret what you say as boasting about your child or belittling their own child's achievement. Might not be jealousy at all. It is sometimes hard to listen to parents talking about the academic achievements of their children.

I have never bragged. I haven't got it in me. I am allergic to smuggery. I have encountered a fair few boasty people though. Actually it is usually grandparents who are the worst culprits. I had to sit at a lunch next to a woman who went on and on and on and then on some more about her gd at Cambridge. I just nodded and hmmmd (and suffered) and didn't say that ds was there too. There was no point.

Same Irma. But then I've not come across the syndrome described in the OP.

Good morning,
So glad I had rl things to do last night.
So happy being the parent of 2 very average, actually by mumsnet standards failing kids, I have developed a very thick skin. Although Ds1 is a national schoolboy RL champion.

Half this thread just proves my first comment. 50% of posts decedicated to proving how pointless my kid is.

I dont actually agree its jealously, it think it is often parents like me, finally run out knowing how to congratuate high flyers, after been told for the 15th time do you how well DC is doing, whilst you kid is just ignored.

Finally this a firmly MC/private school parent issue, IMO, as most of our WC friends kids are just like ours, we all attend the same school(s) and 90% never darkened the door of any university, yet alone Oxbridge.

Please remember the worst achievers in education, are white working class boys and girls. The worst region is Yorkshire and Humber, followed by North East.

Thats why our school has got 3 educational chartities paying for trips, NOT TO OXBRIDGE, but just to get kids to think about university, even SALFORD, LINCOLN or UNIVERSITY CENTRE of GRIMSBY.
You lot dont have a clue.

Even this government of out of touch Tory oxbridge graduates admit its white working class kids who are the lost generation

My youngest DS is currently at Oxbridge studying a STEM subject which he is excellent at. He chose to apply, worked very hard at said subject, and was offered a place.
It turned out that several of my friends could have gone to Oxbridge, and were very convincing about this..... gradually I realised not one of them had applied. It seemed a wierd, self defensive reaction, rather than jealousy.

All his mates were thrilled for him as he's well known, and well liked, for his 'geekiness'. It was only a strange handful of my friends who were odd.

What do you want people to say? What do you say when your friend says her DC is going to Anglia Ruskin or somewhere else low in the league tables? Do you say "That's great! Cambridge is a lovely city! She'll have a blast!" Because there's a few people on this thread who I think might struggle with that, and you should do as you would be done by.

That is exactly the sort of thing I say when people tell me about their DC or GDC Fazackerley. It's incredibly easy to find a positive and be genuine about it.

"Because there's a few people on this thread who I think might struggle with that"

And this is the problem.

Really, how hard is it just to be nice? This is kindness 101, not some advanced level of angelic goodness.

All our friends were thrilled for DD who went to Oxford to do a STEM subject...... other than...... my mother, her grandmother. So, I trump your disappointment in Oxford reactions.

Grandmother was heard to say to Granddaughter, well that's nice dear, but everyone who goes there is of a certain type you know, you won't be getting a rounded education, or learn much about life, and it's a shame you didn't do Medicine. I learnt so much more from the university of life..... blah, blah, blah... and Cambridge is so much nicer.
So, all in all, a huge disappointment for the old bag.

Aspiration is important, 2Boys. It should not follow that because you live in a less affluent area, you cannot aspire to better universities than the ones you mentioned. Why should these children be dumbed down if they can manage a top course at a top university? That is hardly fair on them, is it? It is vital that schools understand that universites are not all the same. Not everyone should look to the new universities. Clearly some should and that is fair enough. No-one should be told they are not good enough to apply to somewhere excellent for their subject instead of somewhere good enough because they have never had the differences explained to them. The fees are the same after all but outcomes maynot be. Choices should never be made on fees as millions are never going to pay them back. I recognise this dumbing down of opportunity and not being clear about the value of all courses by schools in less affluent areas where few go to university. It is helpful to some who have not thought about university, but definitely not all. It is partly respoinsible for DC in the areas you mention not getting to the best universities.

Bubbles I completely agree that aspiration is important to cultivate for university choice. However I agree with 2Boys that it may already be an achievement to make DCs think of going to university let alone somewhere that makes them feel uncomfortable because they perceive that most students are not like them. It is interesting the effect accents have in making WC DCs feel ‘them and us’ when visiting universities that might otherwise be a good fit for their ability. It should be reinforced time and time again that most students with ‘posher’ or southern accents will be perfectly normal and potential friendship material.

There is definitely an element of inverted snobbery about Oxbridge entrants from certain areas of the UK. My son is in first year and I too find myself almost whispering when someone asks where he is for fear of being thought to be showing off. This attitude is also prevalent in the schools here (NI) where applicants are prepared far more fully to deal with disappointment of not getting in, than prepared for actually getting in!! His mates have been fantastic, but all rib him about now considering himself 'too good' for them (but fondly!!) Likewise, he struggled in the first few weeks as felt completely inferior to those who came with a stronger sense of entitlement......

I am sure you are correct sendsummer and I did say there was a role for schools in getting DC to think about university when they are the first in the family to have a chance. What should not happen though is slavishly going local or somewhere unsuitable because it appears to meet the perceived social standing of the young person. Accents being a real stumbling block. No one from the south seems to worry about going to Newcastle; but I’m not sure it works the other way round! Therefore I completely agree some young people are put off when they come across different accents but no university has a majority of privately educated young people and the majority come from a mix of schools and backgrounds. They certainly should not have any adults reinforcing stereotypical views that some students at great universities will be too posh and therefore unpleasant and not worth knowing because of their backgrounds.

I really do believe there is no need for the brightest and the best students to be told that Z university is where they should go when, if they went to a different school and had informed parents, that university wouldn’t be on the long list. Some schools should have a more nuanced approach towards individual pupils and what is available.

Not really sure why you feel the need to keep banging on about this tacolover

I'm not. If someone responds to something I said that I don't agree with then I will reply back.

tacolover I think you owe oneteen an apology!

Er, No I don't

Quoting parts of a university's website doesn't support your argument. You can't be naive enough to believe that because a uni says they give out unconditionals for ability that it is actually true in every case, surely? Obviously universities are not going to admit that the reason for their unconditionals is because they need bums on seats!

And I've already said(as well as oneteen has also said) that Birmigham and Lancaster are exceptions, not the norm. So even if Birmingham and Lancaster only gave out unconditionals for exceptional academic ability that doesn't discredit my argument.

And if you need more proof that most unconditionals aren't awarded for exceptional academic ability, the original PP mentioning unconditionals said that her son got an unconditional even when all his teachers predicted he would fail all his A levels and then his final grades were Cs and a D, so how can unconditionals only be awarded for exceptional academic ability??

Some schools should have a more nuanced approach towards individual pupils and what is available.
Yes absolutely and with the (possibly infrequent) students who want to put their head above the parapet of familiarity for university then teachers and parents can also advise them that aiming high means they may not be successful but will still have better choices than if they had not tried.

'it is actually true that Oxbridge do phone exceptional students on results day. '

How would they know about the results of students who haven't applied though?

Very well done to your ds op.