How Far Backwards Are Oxford and Cambridge Bending For State 6th Formers Where You Are?

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

The last time Oxford and Cambridge were in the news for their largely white and privately educated student body, I remember a lot of talk about how they 'bend over backwards' to widen participation.

So I am surprised that the session where I live (how to apply, what it's like, secrets of successful interviews etc) delivered by an Admissions Tutor from Oxford is happening at the most expensive and exclusive private school in the city. Other sixth formers can go, and our school has let anyone interested know about it, but something about this doesn't scream 'WP' to me.

I know there's an argument that this school probably has the Oxford contact, it works fine this way, if everyone can go then what's the problem... there are three private sixth forms, one state college and four state 11-18 schools here: it had to be somewhere.

But the message this gives out is - private schools are where you go, to go to Oxford and Cambridge, and Oxford and Cambridge are where you go from private schools. The link gets made. The very vast majority of state sixth formers here will never have been through the doors at this private school before: for some of them, it might actually be quite intimidating. The whole thing just suggests an inextricable link between private education and these universities.

So I wondered whether this is the norm, or just us? Anyone?

This essentially backs up my earlier post about lack of funding in the North compared to London/SE, which was ridiculed by Battleax.

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/01/disadvantaged-pupils-achieve-lower-grades-in-north-than-in-london

So yes Battleax there is unfairness. Your posts about children in the North just needing to have the right attitude need to be looked at in context of these findings.

I don't think you've understood anything I've said about any of it TBH number and given your tendency to invent things it's hard to take you seriously.

I have understood everything perfectly Battleax and I really couldn't care less that you don't take me seriously because I don't value your opinion.

Perhaps you could stop following me about misrepresenting what I've said then?

You're just drawing more attention to your earlier "monied education" stupidity.

How exactly have I misrepresented you?

And for what it's worth you have belittled me and called me dim and my comments stupid when all I have done is disagree with you

Go away.

No.

Where I live, secondary schools talk to each other. If there is a talk from Oxbridge, all the local schools are invited to send pupils along to the host school. This really is not beyond the wit of most liason school groups. I have no doubt that if a lone super-selective has such a talk then it would invite the local comps to visit as well. Private schools should do exactly the same. They are charities.

In my area, a Grammar School county, nowhere near all the high achieving Y6 children get into the grammar schools, deprived or not. However, when I was a Chairman of Governors at a school that rarely had a single child get to a grammar school, I was well aware that more effort should be made to level the playing field for these children. For the bright ones, PP funding is doing that to some extent but does not allow tuition for the 11 plus. This would, in my view, ensure far more deprived young people could get to the grammar schools and then upwards if they are good enough.

Quite a few of the secondary moderns here have 30% of high achieving children. Some of these could be there through choice because parents want a slightly slower pace (yes, I know MN cannot believe this, but it is true) but others have not had the benefit of tuition. I do still strongly advocate a level playing field and that includes the opportunity to hear from Oxbridge about entrance.

And for what it's worth you have belittled me and called me dim and my comments stupid when all I have done is disagree with you

You invented a biography for me based on your own sense of grievance that you or whoever didn't get into Oxbridge. You completely invented details about an education I didn't have and a place I don't live, and when I called you out on it, you clearly didn't like being contradicted about my education and where I live.

You sound unhinged.

I'm sorry your offspring wasn't bright enough for Oxbridge. But it's not my fault. Now stop.

I haven't invented a biography. I assumed you were in the SE.

My dc are not University age so I don;t know why you are saying that they are not bright enough for Oxbridge.

No, dear you told me I'd had a "monied education". Remember? And you (madly) assumed you knew where I lived.

Because I was looking at the data and you want to harp on about your chip. Why don't you start a commiseration thread about whatever ha made you so chippy and stop derailing this one?

It's obvious to most people where the unfairness lies but a SE bias suits most MPs and other influential people because they send their dc to schools in the SE. We have people like you Battleax saying it's our fault for not applying while conveniently enjoying the benefits of a more monied education.

This is what I said. The article I posted backs up my point.

For my trouble you have called me dim, stupid, unhinged, chippy and told me to go away. You have also said that my dc are too thick to get into Oxbridge when actually both of them are still in secondary school.

Seem^

I really don't have a personal grudge against anybody who gets a place at Oxbridge. Some of my best friends went there I am extremely angry about the lack of social mobility and the fact it is getting worse, rather than better. I am annoyed at the difference in funding between pupils from region to region. It frustrates me when people (and yes that does include you Battleax) say there is no unfairness and that if fewer people in the North apply, they just need to be more ballsy (I think that's the word you used). That ignores the fact that pupils in some areas aren't in a good position to apply because of the education they have received.

As for me being stupid, dim, unhinged, chippy, perhaps you are right. I have never claimed to super clever, nor have I said anything about my dc except to correct you over the fact that you say they were too thick to get into Oxbridge. They may be in a position to apply in the future. It has been mentioned as a possibility for my eldest ds a couple of times (youngest is far too young for such conversations). Whether he gets in or not remains to be seen. This is not about him though. It's a conversation about a lack of social mobility for all children in these regions.

And I only came back today because the issue is in today's news. Hardly, in your words 'mad behaviour.'

Just dropping in to make a plea for calm. We're not sure the debate is being enriched by the mud-slinging. Please try to post within our TGs...

DD attended one of the Seren (Wales' MAT programme to encourage pupils to apply for higher profile universities) and came away full of plans to enrich her CV. There was a Cambridge speaker at the event and I think she'd love to go there, but whether she is brave enough to go through with the application in the end will remain to be seen.

She's more than capable, but she's a homebody who find socialising and taking the plunge stressful so I have no idea where she'll apply for!

I keep reading this about Wales and think other areas could do with taking a leaf out of its book : but I suspect this is a funding issue, what with the Welsh government having different betterfunding streams for education.

madeline (and, yes, I am inferring this form your user name!) how much of your daughter's aspiration do you think is really down to her coming from an educated and aspirational background where there will be knowledge of, and confidence in, the path to HE? Oxbridge and co are supposed to be trying to capture state school students form families where there is no background of prior university attendance. This is where most of the RG is falling down.

Piggy - the number of Welsh students going to Oxbridge is low , Wales probably scores very low in educational outcomes so Seren has been set up by Welsh government in response to it. I am not sure how effective they are but though?
Someone more informed than me can answer this..
They are very few private schools in Wales and to my knowledge none are academically selective.

Thanks prof . I am glad to see they are actively addressing this issues, though!

As a teacher myself in a school in Wales I'm not sure we have better funding streams for education. Certainly not that much that actually devolves as far down as the schools themselves - things are in dire straits here this year and next.

The Seren network was set up to address the falling numbers of applications to Oxbridge and other high profile unis by Welsh students.

I know that the Sutton group summer school programme, which looked great, isn't open to DD as her background isn't one of the pupils they are aiming to reach - free school meals/looked after children/children from schools with poor results etc.

I am the only one in our family to have a degree (BEd) but I got it from a Poly rather than a Uni- although it has university status now. So she's the first to go to a uni. But we've always discussed it as a possibility for her to aspire to.

I have zero opinions of where she should set her sights and am letting her to decide that herself.

But because w

I am aware of the situation in Welsh valleys - third generation unemployment in certain areas.
There are a number of reasons for the failure of Welsh students to apply to these universities.
I am aware of a School in the Welsh valley who took their GCSE students to Newyork for two weeks over Easter😳 and the parents thought that was ok!

I know of a girl who was on track to apply to Medicine but the jump from GSCE to AS level was too much as the subjects were taught so badly in her School ( and she found out boys) - I was gutted for her!!

Appalling advice about GCSE and A level choices given, generally low aspiration and culturally reluctance to go further afield!
Welsh schools have relatively better funding compared to the general secondary school - like GS in England the middle classes use this well , at least that's my understanding
I

In other words any number of lectures / Sutton School is going to change.This has to be addressed in foundation stages/ primary school.

Oh! I forgot that the some welsh schools make their children do 13-14 subjects!!