Worried about DS's first choice uni -WWYD?

[IsThisForReal]

DS didn't get his first choice (Oxbridge), but he has four other offers though. Three are at well-known, well respected universities. Two of them consistently rank in the top 4-6 across all the league tables for his subject. The third is typically about 10/11.
His fourth offer ( uni Z) is usually somewhere between 12 to 25 in the rankings. It has a good reputation for his subject, in fact that department is something of a flagship for the University. DS spent a week on a course there over the summer and had a good time.
Since then they have been bombarding him with marketing materials saying how much they hope he will join them next year.
Now he is saying he thinks this will be his first choice, but DH and I are concerned that he is not making a rational, informed decision but is being influenced by the fact he has spent time there and "knows " it.

I know league tables aren't the most important thing, but I can't help feeling that DS can do better than this university. The typical grades achieved by people who start the course are much lower than his predictions – think ABB rather than AAAA. Uni Z has a reputation for accepting grades several grades lower than their offer. I'm worried that he will be bored or not find the course challenging enough, or not find like minded individuals.
Unfortunately he is being quite arsey about it though, and DH and I don't want to back him into a situation where he chooses this university to 'spite us'.
Of course his decision is important, but we want him to make it based on good, rational reasons not just a gut feel from a holiday placement.
We still have some offer holders days to go to, but DS has already dismissed one of these unis as being 'too cold and wet'.

WWYD?

@pallisers .... I think it's controlling and stifling so obviously it's not 'no one'.

The Ops son is an intelligent young man, if he's bright enough to have those predicted grades he's bright enough to make choices for himself given he has all the information.

What university a person goes to is not that important in the long run, it's the qualification they get and any experience they have to back it up that counts to future employers.
Does he know what he wants to do? What are his employment prospects following completion of his chosen degree? What is the success rate of students on the course in securing a job in a related industry? If he, or you, can't answer these questions then you really need to question his, or your, motivation. Look at all of the universities and compare future career success rates of former students. It may week be that his choice is the one that offers the most potential for his future. At the end of the day he will be studying to improve his career prospects, so it really doesn't matter if he has a degree from a prestigious university or a more run of the mill one, it's what he does with it that counts.
Oh and don't be so sure he would 'coast' at his choice, my brother was a straight A student, one of the top two on his school year. He really struggled with balancing study with student life (at a highly regarded university, not that it matters) , his grades suffered as a result. He has a good job now though, with great prospects, but it wasn't the easy ride he was expecting

pallisers - thank you, yes, I also am surprised by the responses that seem to suggest we should let him wander blindly into a 3 year, £50k commitment without at least some comparative analysis.
Like I said before, I would be happy if he could explain his choice to us, but right now he can't ( or won't?) so it feels like he's rushing blindly into something.
No decisions need to be made yet so we're backing off and waiting til he's been to all the offer holder days.
Interestingly there's quite a lot in the news at the moment about whether students are in a position to make good decisions about uni places:
Universities could be accused of 'mis-selling courses'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42264434

Did you not read my post Maiden? I said no one I know. I do understand that you think differently. I was responding to that.

I live in the US and absolutely no one I know would think an 18 year old - no matter how bright - should not be given advice in making such a choice. In fact it is one of the recognised disadvantages first generation college applicants have - less likely to have someone at home to discuss choices and share experiences. Of course people pick universities for all sorts of reasons. My old boss wanted his daughter to go to university A and she went to university B because her boyfriend was going there. But the level of teaching/research/job outreach etc was the same in both.

The prevailing response on MN seems to be that it is of absolutely no concern of the parents - to the point that the OP has been called controlling, stifling and close minded to even raise it. I find that interesting.

I'd give my opinion, of course, but I'd also respect his right to make his own choices. He'll be the one living there, undertaking the course, incurring the debt. It really is his life and his choice.

You say you're surprised that people feel you should " let him wander blindly into a 3 year, £50k commitment without at least some comparative analysis". I'm surprised that you think it's a question of 'letting' him, to be honest. He doesn't have to make a decision you approve of and he doesn't have to justify that decision in a way that satisfies you.

for OP.

Ninja - "What university a person goes to is not that important in the long run"

I don't agree with this. When I look around my friends, family and colleagues their university choices have significantly shaped and affected their futures - anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive I think.
Uni choice can affect lifelong friendships/ future partners, career choice, where you first settle/ start work, if you live abroad, career contacts and success, aspirations.

It's a total 'sliding doors' moment which starts a chain of events that shapes someone's future.

He has given you reasons. You just don't accept them.
Doesn't like X for being "cold and wet"
He knows someone who went to Preferred Uni & has done well.
He had a good time when he spent more than a day at Preferred Uni.
He likes the peers he met at Preferred Uni.

I agree that Uni choices can shape the future; I disagree that you can easily predict How a specific Uni course will shape it.

It's great that you care, but you still have to start by respecting his priorities if you want to have any chance of influencing his decisions.

Is his first choice 'Oop North' by any chance?
Are you worried he might become friendly/fall in love with a local?

I went to university at the bottom of the league tables, because I liked it, and because the league tables didn't exist then. Or if I did, I hadn't heard about them. I've done pretty well.

I shouldn't worry, OP.

I understand that you want your son to make the best decision but I think you have to ease the pressure a bit and let him make his own choice. You said he's been to visit this one. Has he seen others yet and does he intend to? Visiting elsewhere can really help shape his view. How much time does e have to make his decision.

As pp said lower ranked universities have to market more in order to get students. Similarly with lower entrance grades. They do this to bring in students and they have to in order to compete. This shouldn't be seen as a sole reason not to go.

I think you also need to step back a bit. The fact that you've referred to the Uni as 'Uni Z' says a lot to me about your feelings about it and probably to him as well.

It's a total 'sliding doors' moment which starts a chain of events that shapes someone's future

Not so much as where someone is born, who someone is born to etc etc. Get some perspective.

I definitely understand your point of view and concerns. It is a very important decision. However the atmosphere and learning environment of a university is also important, you can't get a feel of that purely from the rankings. If he went somewhere that was more prestigious but was unhappy there and burned out then that would also be a costly mistake. It should be taken into consideration that he feels comfortable at this university.

DS is going through UCAS at the moment.
DD has just come home from Uni.

Make no decisions until you have to - ie March.
By then the blizzard of marketing will have annoyed him
his mocks will be under his belt
and he'll have matured by a few more months.

but if you make him go to the Uni you choose, not the one he does, he is more likely to drop out
leaving you both with shed loads of debt and no degree

YANBU. Uni isn't for making friends DS and having fun. The point is to get a good education. I think that it may be worth sending him to spend a bit more time with the better universities. It seems to be more of a confidence issue than anything else.

30 years later? This is not very relevant to grad recruitment today though. A different world now.

I think posters are being very hard on the OP. Many parents do want the best university that their DC can get into. With high predicted grades, surely this is the aim of most? Possibly this thread is showing why the UK lags behind other countries in terms of ambition?

DC went to school in Central London where attitudes were very similar to those expressed by pallisers. The "school" you go to seems really important in the US and so discussion was normally around Oxbridge/London or Ivy.

DS is seeing similar on his Masters. He is the only Brit out of about 40 and about half the course are aiming for "top" 10 PhD programmes in the States. Many, especially the Americans, are using a well-recognised European Masters programme to bridge a gap between their liberal arts colleges/less regarded Universities and credible PhD applications. Its been easy for DS: nice nursery; good prep; good secondary; good University and now a good Masters, with some impressive references for his PhD applications.

I agree with the sliding doors.

He is very happy and totally immersed in his subject. Where he seems to be headed was never an ambition for him or us. Instead he has been swept along via influence from peers. Difference choices would probably have led to different outcomes, and he may well have been equally happy. The crucial thing has been that most choices: whether to work at school; friendships he has made, etc have been his, though obviously we have encouraged and helped support.

It sounds as if your DS is unsure. Not least Yr13 and the pressure of A levels is tough. Perhaps this is a way of ducking out.

Again...Gap year. Let him grow up a bit and get a clearer idea of what motivates him. It will help, wherever he goes.

No, his preferred a uni isn't up north – I'm from up north myself so would be more than happy if he went there! Unfortunately that's the wet and cold one though… (based on four hours spent there in November )

Yes, he has given 'reasons' but I just don't think they are very compelling/ convincing. The course was run by a third party, not the uni, so he's really just judging the facilities, not the staff/students/course.
There's no guarantee that any of the other potential students he met will go there either,as they were all applying to the other unis too.

Also, as the student is in charge of the button on UCAS to make a final decision, a parent choosing is rather difficult!

My parents were so sure they knew best, though, Bubbles, just like OP. Their priorities were the only right ones (they argued). Not mine. Their lack of respect didn't change my mind. 30 yrs means I've had a long time to consider the alternative paths I could have followed.

Valid point that someone like me may lack ambition: So What? It's not duty of OP's DS to fulfill other people's ambitions or targets.

I raised a ferociously ambitious DD. Heck knows how. It's bewildering. She will fit in with & understand the London glitteratai set, one day. She gets a weird shiny look in her eyes when I tell her about Xenia.

Could it be that he s worried about getting the grades for top rated uni's if they are asking for top grades ? I don't know how confident he is but Oxbridge knock back may have affected his views. But of course it could be as simple as he just felt he liked uni Z.

I would just make sure he visits the others so has some sort of comparison and his views may change over time. And then respect his decision when its made. But in the meantime keep some positivity. He is a bright boy with good Uni offers - it would be a shame if his last year in school and the application process is blighted by your negativity.

He needs to visit the other unis on his choices. You cant compare somewhere you have been to and like with places you’ve never seen.

What are they asking for at UniZ and your red brick preference? I was always Toms that you put the higher asking as first offer and the lower as second in case you don't make your grades. Would that logic work?
Ultimately go and view them as much as you can, provide the information available and accept it is his 50k mistake to .make

Have you visited all of the universities?

If not, you really need to. It is completely impossible for him to decide on any other than the one he's been to if he hasn't visited them.

As PPs have said, it's not just about rankings. Employers don't sit looking through league tables at where people went to university.

If your DS goes somewhere he is happy and comfortable with, he will do much better than somewhere top of the league tables where he is unhappy. There are so many more things to think about the rankings.

Also, admission grades are not based on how clever you need to be to go there. They are based on the popularity of the course.

It also depends on the subject e.g. Engineering - then look at industry links and employment rates; medicine - it doesn't matter; Law - if he wants to go into law, the consensus is that the university matters.
My DD1 went to a higher ranking university and hated her course and to a lesser extent the place. She dropped out and is now at a lower ranking one but still a good choice and is far happier.
DD2 who applied to Oxford, withdrew her application as it wasn't the right course for her. She has chosen a Northern uni that has the reputation for being a party place but is very highly ranked for her course and loves it - but the course is very full-on and hard work.
There isn't any right answers but the happiness of your DS is vital.
Try and go to all the post applicant days with him and encourage him to look at the pros and cons. But the ultimate choice needs to be his.
Good luck!