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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Oxbridge 'favours' students from London and South-East

487 replies

jeanne16 · 21/10/2017 08:21

Apparently 48% of students come from London and the South-East with Richmond being a particular hotspot. Should we be surprised by this and accuse the universities of bias? The way I see it is Richmond is full of extremely intelligent people who presumably have intelligent children. They then have the money and resources to support them in all sorts of ways, such as buying books, reading to them, private schooling and/or tutors when needed, sport and other activities.

I really don't see how this is the fault of the universities.

OP posts:
horsemadmom · 26/10/2017 16:25

There was another panic about this a few years ago. The papers did a 'Laura Spencer' over a CLSG girl with all A*s and no offers and supposedly if you put your UCAS in by October 15th Bristol and Durham would reject you......
Not borne out in any way at either of my DC's schools.

user918273645 · 26/10/2017 16:48

Note that the Telegraph today had to withdraw its fake story about Cambridge insisting on white writers being removed from the syllabus.

Hardly a source of reliable information about higher education.

horsemadmom · 26/10/2017 17:09

The Gruniad is just as bad.
BTW, DD1 (currently 2nd year at Oxford)got offers from all but one of her UCAS choices including Bristol. She didn't apply to Durham as she's a clubber not a pubber.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 26/10/2017 17:10

My DD is a bright northern girl who didn't apply to Oxbridge, despite loving the look of a couple of the courses and the totally buying into uni as a Hogwartsesque experience.

But DD was scuppered before she even got to A levels because in the 5 years she was at her state school it dropped from really quite decent to special measures. She had no maths or science teachers in y11 and lots of other sub optimum teaching and consequently ended up with three As and 9As, rather than the heavy clutch of As she was capable of.

She moved to a very good sixth form, rediscovered her love of learning, a proper passion for her subject and I had some really good advice on here that she should have a go at Oxbridge if her A level results were decent.

However, she has chosen to take her very decent A levels off to Trinity College Dublin, which actually awards places purely on the outcome of The Irish Leaving Cert (and A levels etc). I do think there is an argument for U.K. Universities taking this approach.

FunderAnna · 26/10/2017 17:10

Worth listening to the start of today's Woman's Hour.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b099v33r#play

Original poster
jeanne16 · 26/10/2017 17:41

Lily. That article about Bristol was dated 2004. Admissions have changed significantly since then, especially following the removal of the numbers cap. Now pretty much all students who have the correct predicted grades get offers from all the unis they apply to (with the obvious exception of Oxbridge or Medicine). Personal Statements, References, DoE, Grade 8 Music exams etc are all pretty much irrelevant.

OP posts:
user918273645 · 26/10/2017 17:50

I don't believe that Bristol even in 2004 was refusing to offer to students who looked like they preferred Oxbridge. Even then they couldn't have gotten away with such a policy without losing many talented students.

(It's not just Oxbridge and Medicine that are still selective - other over-subscribed subjects select as to the very top institutions such as LSE for Economics, Imperial for many of its subjects. But it is true that many or even most university courses make offers to those with the right predicted grades.)

Lily2007 · 26/10/2017 18:09

The discussion was about historically not now.

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 19:49

I still do not understand why it is not permitted to apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same round.

FWIW one of my kids is already at Uni and the other is looking at a course that Cambridge do not do and he does not have enough GCSE A* for Oxford

The UK has a coordinated application system through UCAS
but two of the universities seem to get special treatment that is denied to any of the others that are in the World top 20
WHY?

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 20:01

Is the simple explanation not ok Talkin?

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 20:05

goodbye
What is the simple explanation ?

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 20:08

p14

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 20:11

??? I'm on Page 1 with 388 posts
What is the "simple" explanation as to why two Universities get treatment that none of the other world class ones get ?

oklookingahead · 26/10/2017 20:32

I asked the same question Tpeace. The explanation suggested is that the interview process is very time consuming; if you could apply to both, both o and c would effectively have to spend twice as long interviewing as they do now, because most people would apply to both.

Whether that is the official explanation I don't know. It would be interesting to know whether any other university asking for the same treatment would get a yes from UCAS. Though I would imagine that apart from perhaps Imperial, not many would actually want to.

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 20:40

Nothing official about that explanation, it's just bleeding obvious.

Also, it would make no sense for any other university to exclude itself from half its obvious target market since no other university takes the same amount of time to process applications/ has the same saturation point.

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 20:50

goodbye
What is bleeding obvious ?

no other university takes the same amount of time to process applications/ has the same saturation point.
Do you have the slightest bit of evidence for that ?
I suspect that places like Imperial and LSE have eye watering levels of applications from all over the world
but they have to cope without the molly coddling that Oxford and Cambridge are used to.

no other university takes the same amount of time to process applications
So basically they are grossly inefficient and need time to get with it .....

Sorry, no simple or good reasons there
Oxford and Cambridge should be put on the same footing as the other elite universities.

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 20:59

They also cope without interviewing, for the most part. Hence my comment.

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 21:01

Its a choice. Not a right .... So still nothing obvious at all

YellowPrimula · 26/10/2017 21:03

Surely it is obvious that the reason Oxford and Cambridge have different admissions processes is that they offer a completely different type of educational experience to other universities and therefore require a different selection process.All universities may be called the same thing but in fact they are taught very differently.Not better or worse but definitely different.

No other university as far as I am aware teaches 1:2 or 1:3 on a weekly basis or requires weekly essays and also requires you to defend those essays verbally.The history faculty at Cambridge which has some very useful guidance for new students , together with a explanation of the different roles of the college and the faculty , states that it expects students to average 48 hours work a a week in term time.the weekly reading lists are huge and the pace is fast and relentless. Frankly my dc at a well regarded RG university rarely had seminars with less than 25 in , and even in the mid eighties in Durham the standard was a couple of essays per term per module and seminars of 5 or 6 people..

The point is that is is a completely different product and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous , it is not for everyone, however I do rather regret the demise of the two EEs offer which gave the option of disregarding A levels completely and spotting the raw talent.

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 21:07

Choice not right makes no particular sense. It's practical, and that makes sense to me.

It's difficult to take you seriously about Oxbridge Talkin, when you've started some very quirky threads about it previously. You seem to have a real problem with it for some reason but have never articulated very clearly why.

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 21:09

Yellow
1:2 or 1:3 on a weekly basis ~ weekly essays ~ reading lists are huge
In Physics ?????

The point is that is is a completely different product and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous
Really ?
The differential between Oxford and Cambridge and the other top 20 world universities is far narrower than you imply.

The differential between them and other Unis for some courses is not that great
so why do they need to be wrapped in cotton wool ?

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 21:14

goodbye
I have no problem with Oxbridge per se.
I have a massive problem with those who pull up the drawbridge behind them.

Social mobility in the UK has ground to an utter halt.
But Oxbridge still have an iron grip on government, the judiciary and the civil service
while remaining grossly unrepresentative of the country at large.

My work specialism is governance, accountability and transparency.
The UCAS differential between Oxbridge and all other Unis fails all three
my kids are out of the picture on the issue so its a professional not a personal interest

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 21:16

Students can apply to Oxford and Harvard at the same time, or Cambridge and Princeton etc etc etc etc (lots of permutations!). I wonder if the funding situation alleviates anything with the big Ivy names........

goodbyestranger · 26/10/2017 21:19

Yes, though it got a bit personal when your DD wasn't out of the picture Talkin, as far as I recall, and old issues die hard. It certainly hasn't been a purely professional hang up until very recently, though it's good to see you've moved on.

Ta1kinPeece · 26/10/2017 21:21

I do not remember Harvard and Princeton getting funding from HEFCE and through UCAS
SAT deadlines are the same everywhere after all must look up my 1980's results papers

Still waiting for a decent explanation of why Oxford and Cambridge are allowed to be application snowflakes
other than the fact that they are likely to have alumni on all of the decision making quangos and committees