Contextual offers - how do they work please?

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DD is just about to enter sixth form at our local school. She will be studying for A levels and hoping to be heading for university afterwards.

I have heard that some universities make slightly lower offers to students from some state schools.

Can anyone explain how contextual offers work and whether DD will need to apply for a contextual offer please?

You was talking about Bristol bombing down the research league can't find THE research table.. it keeps pointing to REF ones. The times higher education (THE) world ranking puts bristol uni at 69 which I think is quite credible too for world ranking. Whats wrong with the REF ones? Are unis cheating on that one or something?

I've looked on the nature index you mentioned and bristol is ranked 7 in the UK. That's not bad either.

But in the Nature index (relevant for STEM) you see that Bristol is right next to KCL and Southampton, while MN perception would be that the latter two are much weaker than Bristol. And in your screenshot you can see that Bristol's index dipped from 2014 to 2015, while most of the other UK universities shown saw an increase in their index.This tallies with the comments above that Bristol has been declining in reputation.

THES university rankings this year: Bristol 69, Manchester 56, KCL 27, LSE 23, Edinburgh 24, UCL 14, Imperial 8, Cambridge 4, Oxford 2. A whole bunch of other UK universities from 70-120. Based on these rankings one can see that UCL and Imperial could consistently, across most subjects, be viewed as just behind Oxbridge, but Bristol is not. But of course every university has particularly strengths in some subjects and could well be close to Oxbridge in particular subjects.

REF is a particularly unreliable index imo as it was gamed by institutions in many different ways (see Stern's report earlier this week for recommendations of changes). One issue (of many) was that the panel assessment tended to be biased in favour of places with pre-existing high reputation.

You mention Bristol index dipped from previous 2014 on screenshot but so has other more prestigious uni's Imperial and Cambridge.
According to nature index subjects for university of bristol
physical science rank 11
Earth and environmental rank 3
Chemistry UoB rank 5
Overall rank 7
Think bristol is getting a bit of a unfair bashing about its reputation . It's silly if we start discrediting every table that has bristol doing well as being unreliable and any table that indicates bristol is doing crap must be credible and trustworthy .
I've never looked on bristol as just behind Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL LSE. I just see it as a very good university.

Coffee this may all be about age.

In my day, showing how old I am, if you did not get into Oxbridge you probably went to Bristol or Durham, as an "Oxbridge reject". I was unusual in that despite going to a private school I did not apply to Oxbridge, and rejected Durham, because I had decided I wanted to be in London. Warwick, York, UEA, Kent, Southampton, Bath and Sussex were somehow lumped together as "new Universities" and a definate tier below. In the middle you had red-bricks like Liverpool, Manchester (including UMIST) and Birmingham.

When I got to LSE we were still busy being revolting and occupying the Director's Office. Staff, who believed in Milton Friedman, were far more right wing than the students. And us private school kids found ourselves very much in a minority surrounded by lots of bright state schools kids who did not have the support to do that extra term and sit Oxbridge exams. (My naice girls school use to forbid pupils from applying though I seemed to be exempted on account of my rebellious streak.)

Lots has changed. Bristol is no longer seen as the place where those who narrowly miss Oxbridge go. LSE (and UCL and Imperial) are, though northern comprehenisve kids are now an endangered species and students, who all seem to want to be merchant bankers, are probably more right-wing than staff. Warwick, Bath, Exeter and York all seem to have improved their offer. Bristol is seen as a good University, and a great place to live, but no longer seems to hold the status it once had.

DCs school was odd in that it was very cosmopolitan and so decisions were probably more closely aligned to decisions of ambitious overseas students. It appears though that lots of Private school pupils are still influenced by their parents or are attracted by the city, whilst Bristol in parallel are working hard on outreach and offering lots of contextual offers, presumably to help create a more balanced student community.

I am still surprised that it is not seen as desirable as it once was. And wonder why this is.

Bristol has some very good academics but these are often not best supported by the university organisation and leadership (from what I hear). Its academic reputation might have declined further should it not be an attractive place to live (for academics and students).

need your story makes more sense to me now. Thanks for that explanation. I just couldn't understand why Bristol was getting the bashing it was. Thought people had some kind of chip on their shoulders with them or something. Or had Bristol been arrogant to piss people off, seems like they can't do anything right at the moment. Oh well never mind Dd still loves the place
DD's course is now a A*AA course so it can't be a oxbridge rejects choice anymore. DD says at present she only knows of 8 oxbridge rejects on her course , so with her own limited data theres not that many.

coffee I can assure you there are no chops on my shoulders. Just professional interest in what is happening at Bristol.

I can see you are (understandably) defensive.

But for those of us on this thread who work in universities it is interesting why reputations fall. We are all vested in keeping the reps of our own institutions high so of course we watch 'the market', taking special interest in those places on the rise ( what are they doing right) and those on an opposite trajectory ( what are they doing wrong).

Don't think for a moment that Bristol won't be alive to all this .

That's not to say that Bristol is not a lovely place. I went to the recent open day with my kids and we all loved it.

And I don't think anyone has said it's a poor university or anything like that. It obviously is not. Though from what hay has said, for STEM it has real problems.

As for the Oxbridge rejects point, well, plenty of the young people with the very highest grades are rejected there. An A*AA offer will not preclude that group.

However, need makes an interesting point that it is no longer seen as a place to go within certain groups of young people. Which again is interesting. Bristol I am sure is asking itself that self same question. And there very blunt tool in respect of contextual offers may well be part of their answer.

But for those of us on this thread who work in universities it is interesting why reputations fall. We are all vested in keeping the reps of our own institutions high so of course we watch 'the market'.

Exactly. This discussion is about Bristol but academics could have similar discussions about other places too: how they gamed the REF, what their strengths and weaknesses are, which subjects are rising and which are falling.

Most of this analysis would not be tremendously relevant for undergraduates, unless they are looking to stay on for PhDs. However, need's point about parents' perceptions being different to current day status is an interesting one. In the 80s/early 90s Bristol would have been viewed as just behind Oxbridge and at least some parents still encourage kids to go there based on this perception. But while it's a nice place and a good degree from Bristol will certainly open many doors, a (STEM) degree from e.g. Warwick or Bath (which as need said used to be viewed as lower tier relative to Bristol) will open just as many doors and is not less valued.

On a slightly different tack, what I have read is that (I think) Cambridge guarantees that if a potential student is predicted the necessary grades and is in one of the recognised post codes for low HE participation then they will get an interview.

That I think is very interesting as a way of widening access. One of the concerns I have is that my DD's school has very little experience in helping students with their applications for RG universities.

gnome for the vast majority of courses at the vast majority of universities ( RG) included if an applicant has the correct predicted grades, they will get an offer.

This is the main point the school need to get right.

But again, as said upthread, virtually nobody outside Oxbridge actually interviews these days so it's irrelevant that the school don't have much experience in RG applications. 95% of courses will make offers based on grades and predicted grades, with the offers being made by admin teams rather than by academics.

Cambridge's policy is a pretty "cheap" one to apply anyhow, as Cambridge already interviews a big fractions of applicants (almost all for subjects like Maths, for example) and for STEM the biggest factor in selecting for interview is still grades (plus the new pretests), not personal statement.

I actually think that it is not the putting together of the application where most applicants need help.

It is in choosing subjects at school so that doors are not closed and choosing courses/universities.

Thereafter it is predicting grades realistically and flagging up anything unusual in the reference. No school has an excuse to do this badly ( though they seem to get it wrong often ).

Totally anecdotally, for any parent whose DC may be thinking of applying to Bristol, my DSS1 has just graduated from Bristol and absolutely adored his three years there. He is very sad that it's over.

He and his friends all seem to have great things lined up for the future so our impression is that Masters degree courses and top employers value Bristol graduates.

Putting together a university application is pretty similar to putting together an estate agent's brochure for marketing a house. The fundamentals need to be in place but there is always 10% of spin (careful wording) to help things along :)

No school has an excuse to do this badly ( though they seem to get it wrong often hmm).

And there's the rub, DD's school has a poor reputation for managing administration: failing to secure English GCSEs one year (yes, 'that' school), losing coursework, losing forms. The less that DD's university application has to depend on the school to get things right the happier I will be.

bobo for most courses the universities are recruiting not selecting.

Admin assistants deal with applications. If you have the correct predicted grades, you'll get an offer.

There are a small number if courses (relatively) that select and even then as hay says, it mostly comes down to grades and pre tests.

gnome if I were you I would get your DD to check what grades her school are predicting and ask to see the reference prior to submission.

If there is a problem with either, you can discuss it with them.

It's not, IME, quite as straightforward as that. Dud personal statements can put a spanner in the works at universities that are perceived to be recruiters (eg Queen Mary, Royal Holloway), even where predicted grades are comfortably in excess of standard offers.

bobo I can assure that at one of your examples the PS is often unread in many subjects.

The process is a very simple one. I know I used to work there .

I'm fully aware that PSs are not always read. My point is that an application should not bank on that being the case. It's like an estate agent's brochure - often, prospective viewers barely read them. But you never know - best do a good job just in case. There's no point creating a bad impression when it's quite easy to create a good one with a little effort .

Sorry bobo I do not believe that either RH or QM declined purely on the basis of a poor PS. There will have been something else that was weak that caused the decline - low predictions, lack of knowledge of French Bac or something. But a weak PS and the correct grades would almost always guarantee an offer from those institutions.

But Bobo your candidates are not from the UK and are hence not in the same admissions category as OP's DD.

We are talking about UK candidates here - as GetaHaircutCarl says, we know for sure that decisions are made in office by admin staff for many courses (particularly when they are our own courses or we are external examiners!) and that many PS are unread. Even at a university which is mostly recruiting (QM, RH) there can indeed be a few selective courses, but the main issue here is that your candidates are coming from the EU and thus are often dealt with on a more one-to-one basis.

titchy - what is there "not to believe" when (a) that is the feedback applicants receive from admissions when they request it (b) the same applicant receives offers from universities that are perceived to be selecting universities (Warwick, UCL) in the same cycle i.e. the rest of the application was fine?

bobo your business is predicated on the assumption that the UCAS process is complex.

However, I think the most you can truly say is that for French students applying to a very small number of courses the wording of the PS might matter.

However that is not the case for the vast majority of students applying to the vast majority of courses at the vast majority of universities.

And giving the impression that the process is more complex than it is, is quite wrong.