Contextual offers - how do they work please?

[GnomeDePlume]

DD is just about to enter sixth form at our local school. She will be studying for A levels and hoping to be heading for university afterwards.

I have heard that some universities make slightly lower offers to students from some state schools.

Can anyone explain how contextual offers work and whether DD will need to apply for a contextual offer please?

BertrandRussell, she is only just at the GCSE level at the moment, coming into A level next year. I dont know what her capability at A level is. My opinion, which may be wrong, is that the difference between a high B and an A or a high A and an A* can come down to teacher input. A good teacher seeing that with a little bit more a student could cross the boundary.

In all honesty I don't think your DD will need contextual offers. If she can get A* in a poor/crap school especially in maths and physics too. It clearly shows shes highly capable works above average in a compromised school with all the challenges that brings her. If she can carry forward the work ethics and hard work built from gcse into 6th form she will be absolutely fine. Well done to her.

My opinion, which may be wrong, is that the difference between a high B and an A or a high A and an A can come down to teacher input.*

This is not so true in maths and related subjects. Extensive resources are online these days. Anyone who has the capability of getting A stars at A level Maths and FM can usually do so by self teaching. Teacher input is much more important for those trying to get Bs or Cs, who may not be able to work through the resources on their own.

I see a fair few A stars in FM from students in very weak schools in which the students have to self teach FM with only online help.

Have a look at etrust summer schools. Really good !

Titchy, if others don't mind an extention of a conversation about a specific University' contextual policy, our local school is doing very well given 93%FSM with a very high values added score for their sixth form. A level results are not on their web-site though I very much doubt they are better than average, not least because a couple of dedicated selective sixth forms (Kings Maths School and Harris Westminster), as well as a sixth form consortium in the neighbouring borough, will syphon off some of the most able.

It looks as if local Universities are reaching out:
lbts6.com/20/university-links but no idea why Bristol does not have either them or Platanos College on their list. But does has the private school which educates some very affluent celeb children. I doubt the latter school will have the same problems with petty classroom disruption, staff turnover, difficult home backgrounds etc that inner city state schools face.

Needmoresleep has the school changed name in the last few years? Our school has changed name but is referred to by its original name by OFSTED and also on the Bristol list.

Platanos used to be Stockwell Park, so changed both its name and reputation. Lilian Baylis has now had "Technology College" or something added to its name, but neither are down under new name or old.

It seems a pity. Both are great examples of inner city schools which have improved solidly over the past decade. (Lilian Baylis was the school which in 2003 caused Oliver Letwin, a prominent Tory to say "If necessary I would go out on the streets and beg rather than send them to a school next to where I live", and at the time many locals were sympathetic.) But neither are easy, and a child who makes it through with good grades has done very well indeed.

Its a bit of a specific example but it would be shocking if Bristol were offering pupils from the private school (Portland Place) lower grade offers on the basis of their "educational disadvantage".

I'm not sure that the public list is definitive (they may have an updated list in the admissions office) but if you are involved with the schools in a professional capacity you could certainly email Bristol admissions to ask.

I think it is ridiculous that they include private schools on their list at all. I could imagine circumstances where it could be appropriate for a few pupils at private schools to receive contextual offers (bursary pupils, special needs reasons, family circumstances) but not blanket offers based on the relatively poor academic performance of the school.

In effect it illustrates the pretty obvious point that schools have relatively poor results for a variety of reasons, not just because of poor teaching or pupils coming from challenging backgrounds.

For example several nice East Dorset schools are on the list. Not because they are poor schools, but because Grammars will have creamed off some of the more able pupils.

Surely the point of contextualistion is to identify individual pupils who have the ability to perform well at University, but because of educational disadvantage won't quite get the grades. Not give a blanket advantage to schools where good pupils do well, even though their intake is such that results are lower.

Someone has already mentioned the Sutton Trust - they may be able to advise you.

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/20/oxford-college-lady-margaret-hall-scheme-recruit-disadvantaged-students

LMH Oxford has a new scheme, I don't know if that would apply for you child.

University College Oxford now has something.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/07/19/oxford-college-to-increase-intake-of-minority-students-following

For example several nice East Dorset schools are on the list. Not because they are poor schools, but because Grammars will have creamed off some of the more able pupils.

I think for these it's more about the demographics of catchments. Some of the E Dorset schools listed are sufficiently far from the Bournemouth/Poole grammars that virtually nobody goes there from these areas.

But still the point is correct: the list is based on overall results, without taking into account starting points, value added and demographics. There are state schools with very affluent areas included. If one looked at how high achievers within the schools/sixth form colleges perform, many wouldn't be on the list as high achievers do just as well as they should.

thank you spike1709 and thesandwich for the summer school suggestions. DD is very interested.

The University College Oxford proposal looks like a good idea. Not sure if DD is up to those dizzy heights!

Thank you for all the advice. DD is definitely a self-starter. She has been working her way through Head Start books since finishing GCSEs.

There is never any harm done by aspiring to Oxbridge and they have subject open days. You can book in when the time comes.

The universities do say on their web sites regarding how they select students. These days some courses really do want to see a coherent personal statement and good GCSE results. These form part of the overall selection process at some universities and it is always worth doing your homework on this and not relying on statistics from MN. Bristol make it clear that for some subjects, there are far more hoops to go through above bare results.

If she is at all interested in Oxbridge (or just fancies the experiences), Cambridge do various masterclasses which only cost a tenner two years ago, and Oxford's UNIQ is a fantastic opportunity and definitely worth applying for (apply in Jan/Feb next year). My dd also applied for a Sutton trust summer school at Cambridge and didn't get a place, having known it was highly unlikely, but did get an invitation to another two day thing at Cambridge - so do look around and see what's available and just try for everything

Thank you for all the information.

Gnome, UCL also run a load of different "widening participation" activities including summer schools. See the link below.

www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/widening-participation/activities

That's a very odd list from Bristol. The only school listed in my county is the single highest performing school by miles, and also has by far the lowest %ge of FSM pupils

Thank you WalkingtoMordor, lots for DD to consider.

Sadik, I think it just confirms a PP's suggestion that for Bristol this is a marketing exercise not really about widening access.

Just looked at the list- it includes a local high performing grammar school. It must be based on postcode alone. There is no other reason. Utterly outrageous- the grammar school kids will get the same "advantage" as the kids from the associated secondary modern- despite the grammar having a practically non existent % of disadvantaged children......

Maybe their A level results are relatively poor Bertrand? Or not that many kids go to university.

The Bristol list is the bottom 40% in either category (not both) so may well include 50% of all sixth form provision.

As I said it's a very blunt tool to measure the educational context the grades were achieved in, not the socio-economic context of the student, hence no mention of postcode, first in family etc.

Nope. Perfectly usual grammar school results and destinations. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong list? O

Can't even be based on postcode - the school listed in my county is not only the best performing, it's also in the (relatively) prosperous north of the county, there are some extremely poor areas further south.

I wonder then whether it is a way of making lower offers than the headline as a way of attracting more students in. A bit like a hidden discount.

This way the headline price is still A*AA, the price 'paid' by many of the students may be as low as ABB. This will result in far fewer places ending up in clearing.

Sorry, is my cynicism showing!

As I said above, it is indeed perceived to be a marketing strategy by Bristol, to attract high achievers from slightly below average schools. Bristol has one of the smallest fraction of students from deprived backgrounds. Most of their contextual offers go to middle class kids who are in slightly below average schools.

The strategy is not really correlated with clearing, though. If the standard offer is A star AA then it would be very unusual for them to drop as low as ABB with a contextual offer (1 grade would be more usual than 1 grade per subject). It's then up to them what they actually decide to take in August and how many more places they choose to make available in clearing - there are no quotas so they can take as many students as they wish and they can go as low as they want to in accepted grades.

Currently Bristol does not take that many students in clearing because it does not have an expansion of student numbers policy i.e. it is choosing to prioritise higher grades over more students.

Just thinking, maybe Bristol is not looking at economics as background context but only poor schooling/teaching. Some may argue why penalise kids who went to fee paying schools because their parents paid for poor teaching receiving a paltry return on their investment. Its irrelevant to how academically able the child will succeed at degree level. If the government wanted uni like Bristol only to favour those that were 'disadvantaged' economically rather than just poor schooling then Bristol list of poorly performing school by results ie lowest 40% has been drawn up using wrong criteria.