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Original poster

Contextual offers - how do they work please?

187 replies

GnomeDePlume · 28/07/2016 21:26

DD is just about to enter sixth form at our local school. She will be studying for A levels and hoping to be heading for university afterwards.

I have heard that some universities make slightly lower offers to students from some state schools.

Can anyone explain how contextual offers work and whether DD will need to apply for a contextual offer please?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 31/07/2016 17:06

Could someone link to the list please? I'm not sure I'm looking at the right one...

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 18:22

Bertrand

I don't know but I looked out of interest and this is what I can find as described on the Bristol website as schools / colleges who were eligible for contextual offers for 2016 entry.

www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/undergraduate/documents/contextual-offer-schools-2016.pdf

Others may know better.

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 18:25

Here's the link which gets you to that link.

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 18:26

No it wasn't - here it is

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply/

Sadik · 31/07/2016 18:35

I wonder if it only includes schools where there have been applicants in the relevant admissions round?

BertrandRussell · 31/07/2016 18:44

Thank you- that was the list I was looking at. How very bizarre.

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 19:32

When I say out of interest, it was not sheer prurience. There is a school near to me I know something of and I think they should be on that list, I also think they (i.e. the school) are trying to raise aspirations. So from that point of view it is a good thing. I can't comment on the list as a whole.

BertrandRussell · 31/07/2016 19:36

My ds's school is on the list- I am delighted because now we have managed to persuade the kids to try for university at all, and are starting to get them to apply to universities they have to move away from home for, this might help they make the confidence to apply for a Russell Group or two. Even if it doesn't make much difference in real terms, the very thought that they are at least being thought about will be a bit of a boost.

Needmoresleep · 31/07/2016 20:11

Bertrand, the reason I mentioned East Dorset in an earlier post was that a friend told me that Bristol is a really popular amongst her DDs peers because of the lower offers. I think we both felt that the schools in question, and the pupils within those schools, were not particularly disadvantaged.

It may only be a grade, but certainly for medicine where offers are normally in the AAA to A A A range, Bristol's contextual AAB is attractive.

If so, this is effective marketing.

Though it can cut both ways. DS had Bristol as his insurance, but the fact that contextual offers for his subject were two grades below the standard offer had him concerned that the course might be less academic than he wanted, and had he not got his firm, he may well have reapplied elsewhere.

Coffee, poor results don't always mean poor teaching. The private school I mentioned has done well by bright kids we know who went there. But it is not selective and without the normal privatge school OTT facilities, so some way down the London parent pecking order, and also with a highly mobile student body. I just checked the website. 15 per class up to GCSE and an average of five for A level. Not educationally disadvantaged!

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 20:43

Does anyone know what Bristol does other than put the schools on the list ? Ie is it up to the school after that?

Needmoresleep · 31/07/2016 21:00

Their website gives details for both standard offers and contextual offers for a given course.

So you apply, and if offered a place, the offer will be lower if you go to one of the schools on their list. So economics is normally A*AA, but if you are from a school on the list, it is AAB. (Though both offers require an A in maths.)

Tempting...

To be fair Cambridge and Imperial make some 4xA offers for STEM subjects to some applicants coming from high achieving schools. A form of reverse contextualisation as standard offers will probably be something like A A* A. But then they are rejecting others with similar predicted grades. Essentially they seem to base offers on the individual and their context and performance in aptitiude tests and at interview, rather than a blanket approach.

Coconutty · 31/07/2016 21:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 22:15

Thanks both.

HocusLotus · 31/07/2016 22:31

Sorry - posted too quickly - I suppose my point was is there any other outreach activity by Bristol. Anyway , no matter, it is my business to find out. Sorry for derail. Thanks for posts though.

Coffeewith1sugar · 01/08/2016 00:02

www.pinsentmasons.com › PDF › Politic. This makes interesting read about the problems universities might face with using contextual data which might explain why some of the criteria they use is very weird. The paper highlights potential legal difficulties eg positive discrimination universities might face.

But as others have highlighted there's still lots of unfairness. It does seem that not enough is being done and that many potentially able kids won't have the opportunity to access top unis because of the criteria being used still means poor kids from poor performing schools don't get a fair look in. Yet there's been lots of research that suggest kids from poor performing schools even with lower A level grades using contextual offers that are attending elite universities outperform fee paying students with the top grades at degree level.

BertrandRussell · 01/08/2016 07:36

"Yet there's been lots of research that suggest kids from poor performing schools even with lower A level grades using contextual offers that are attending elite universities outperform fee paying students with the top grades at degree level."

Obviously they would. Because they have to be significantly cleverer and more self motivated.

Clavinova · 01/08/2016 08:10

Bristol university outreach details are here:
www.bristol.ac.uk/law/widening-participation/schools-outreach/

Quite rightly they concentrate their efforts on schools in the South West of England.

Bristol contextual offers are based on the following:
A school or college ranked in the bottom 40 per cent in any of the following categories:
*average score per A-level entry
*average score per A-level entrant
*percentage of students applying to further education

I agree that the criteria is rather simplistic but 40 per cent is a sizeable minority - all poorly performing schools at A level/IB will be included. If a school or college is not on the list then I can only assume that either it does not have a sixth form, e.g. Platanos College (mentioned above) or it is not in the bottom 40 per cent for A levels, e.g. Lilian Baylis (also mentioned above) who in fact have higher minimum entry requirements for AS/A2 courses than the two grammar schools mentioned!

Clavinova · 01/08/2016 08:26

The recent ISI report for the private school in London states that the ability profile of the school at sixth-form is below the national average and approx 40% of the school population appear to have sen/send, the highest proportion being dyslexia, which of course explains their average A level results.

Clavinova · 01/08/2016 08:33

*having dyslexia

GetAHaircutCarl · 01/08/2016 08:40

I suppose some might say this quite a bold move on Bristol's part.

That said,they still have one of the lowest proportions of state schooled pupils ( whichever school) of all UK universities.

One reason is the pricing of accommodation, which is very high indeed ( a huge % of the living expenses loan, often more than). Most students there are being subsidised in part if not in toto by they parents).

Not much point making contextual offers if students can't afford to actually live there.

haybott · 01/08/2016 08:46

I suppose my point was is there any other outreach activity by Bristol.

All universities, including Bristol, put vast amounts of effort into outreach activities: learning days for school kids, visits to schools, providing resources for teachers, providing ongoing learning for teachers, science week events on campus, summer schools for year 12 students, open days, visit days, public talks and events....

Bobochic · 01/08/2016 08:52

I don't think that the low proportion of state schooled students at Bristol has anything to do with the price of accommodation. When I was a student at Bristol in the 1980s, and when a cousin of my mother's was a student at Bristol in the 1960s, the proportion of privately schooled students was already the highest in the country (higher than Oxbridge in the 1980s). Accommodation was very cheap at Bristol in those days. It's a historic positioning.

haybott · 01/08/2016 09:01

BTW Bristol will almost certainly be using a different list of schools for targeting their outreach activities. I would be very surprised, for example, if they provide support for teachers from private schools. (Although providing support would not be so surprising if the private schools involved take a lot of SEN students.)

GetAHaircutCarl · 01/08/2016 09:01

Probably true in terms if ancient history.

But currently Bristol are supposedly trying to take their outreach seriously. Partly fuelled by a desire to embrace social mobility, partly to deal with the endless criticisms they get and partly to try to address their recent dive in the rankings.

But the reality is there is no point making contextual offers to people who can't afford to go.

Lolimax · 01/08/2016 09:01

I'm not sure if this is relevant here but we live in (Valleys) South Wales. In DD's year -now just finished first year of uni- a few of her friends were given unconditional offers from Welsh universities. These kids only had GCSE results to go on.
I couldn't understand it at the time. Surely one needed A level passes to get into uni? I'm thinking now is it so that kids from deprived areas are guaranteed to get in?