Exeter offers : incompetent or arrogant?

[TalkinPeace]

DD submitted her form last October
Exeter have still not had the courtesy to send an offer (the other four Unis all have)
when phoned they said

• no offers have been issued (bollocks as DDs friends have theirs)
• offers will be made by end of December (bollocks as its now late march)
• offers will be made right after the UCAS cut off date (bollocks as it was in January)
• offers will be made by the end of March ........

Exeter are arrogant liars
the word needs to go round

I'm also with BitchyComment here.

Surely by this stage there is either an administrative error or a department in trouble for staffing (whether admissions administration or the relevant academic department) and therefore a pending decision can't be finalised.
As others have said a simple holding email for pending decisions should n' t be time consuming or costly. Individuals at Exeter university won't be arrogant but there are decisions made at the top that affect these sort of processes through staffing or allowing poor management of core services. If a university is popular enough the repercussions of some mismanaged applications or missing some worthy applicants will not be apparent as an issue that affects the university's finances or ranking.

Pretty much all unis afaik use SITS, it is not software that changes much from uni to uni. Also wondering what an update would actually say. I'm sure there is plenty of communication for offer holders, but at this stage, that is the point of Track isn't it?

I looked at Exeter university website. It gives March 31st as a deadline for its offers. A holding email would serve the purpose of explaining to a teenager that some departments need to take longer and that their application is still being seriously considered. Better PR even if it does not change the problems of their process.

I can't find TiPs post with the subject in but I seem to remember it was biochemistry. I wonder then if the problem stems from the medics.

1. Universities are loathe to go over numbers for a lab subject.
2. Biochemistry, and varients thereof, are often used by medics as their fallback option. And if you can't do the degree you want, you may well decide to prioritise a popular campus.
3. TiP says it is a small course.
4. Universities cannot discriminate. So Exeter, depending on the criteria it uses, may need to accept the best qualified candidates even though they know in many cases they will be passed up in favour of a medical school offer. This may leave good candidates whose first preference is to study biochemistry at Exeter hanging.
5. Many medics are still waiting on replies from one at least of their options. One example is Student Room suggests that Bristol seem to have broken verbal promises to give a majority of responses this week, and are now saying mid-April. You only need a couple in that pool and a few others waiting on other medical schools, who are sitting on Exeter biochemistry offers, for Exeter to have a problem.

DS had a series of emails from the LSE giving updates and promising decisions by set dates. I think they were trying to be helpful. Unfortunately they consistently missed these deadlines. It's not clear whether this was more helpful than two of his other choices who maintained a "dignified" silence about their inability to respond for over six months.

I suppose how much stress these late offers cause depends on where the university lies in the applicant's pecking order.

If it's way down, then it might not be worth hanging on for ( particularly if your first choice has a reputation for offering accommodation on a first come first served basis ).

But if it's one of the applicant's top spots then what can you do but grit your teeth and wait?

I suspect need more is bang on re waiting on medical offers.

Medic offers messing it up sounds likely. Biomedical sciences is the classic medic fallback isn't it?

Earlier in the thread, someone (needmoresleep? Am on phone so can't scroll back - someone with kids at a top public school) said this: Their school is clear that University entrance should be considered a two year process, and plenty of DDs peers will be taking a gap year, often to have a second go at Oxbridge. I suspect this approach is one reason why private school pupils are so over represented at top Universities

I think that is exceedingly good advice - to the point I shall be passing it into my children (mind you ds2 wants to go to drama school which is a whole different level of hideousness for applications). But when I went to Oxford (from a state school) I was stunned by how many (mainly public school) candidates has applied two or even three times. It would never have occurred to me to apply again if rejected.

Good luck to all waiting. And TiP - none of it is personal. I suspect she's in the maybe pile. It's the same with job applications isn't it? If you're second choice you wait much longer to hear than if first or a definite no.

bitchy - yes, I know she hasn't asked for weekly offers (though, you know, the offer - and the update - isn't hers to ask for anyway).

I agree with you it is a nervy time for applicants and it's rotten waiting, and I also agree it would be nice if they'd got in touch. But I don't see how characterising it as 'lying' and withholding 'the truth' is in any way helpful. It's way over the top.

Devilish, using all your UCAS options for ambitious but not unrealistic applications, with a Gap Year and re-think as the fall-back, seems to have worked for us. Tertiary education is a huge investment and you might as well do as well as you can. However wating till late March for an offer, which we did twice, is pretty miserable. It was worth it, but I am glad I don't have to do it again.

Obviously this applies to oversubscribed courses where even applicants who are likely to exceed course requirements will be rejected. There is a fair degree of lottery. Observation suggests that re-applicants applying with actual grades do better than those with the same predicted grades. I assume there is a bit of discounting for teacher optimism.

It would never have occurred to me to apply again if rejected.

My daughter wants to do medicine and has been told to take a two-year approach.

But why is this approach the preserve of the private schools? Surely state schools could give the same advice and encouragement for competitive courses? It seems like common sense.

maybe being relatively new to the RG club Exeter (and Durham) haven't fully appreciated MN expectations

They'll learn.

There was a situation in Durham, not sure if it still applies, where the Chemistry labs were seriously restricted in terms of numbers they could accommodate. Although Durham are notorious for keeping candidates waiting for offers, those applying to do cross disciplinary Sciences really were left waiting to the wire with extremely well qualified candidates, some with Cambridge Nat. Sci offers who had opted to include Chemistry alongside Biology still waiting, and even ultimately rejected, long after less qualified applicants who did not include chemistry in their options had offers. It finally emerged in feedback that because of the restrictions on numbers they could only take the very best candidates, indeed those whose PSs were strong in terms of chemistry. If their main interest and PS was focused on Biology they were unlikely to get offers but since they were strong candidates they presumably were kept in a pile left pending because a significant proportion of those very strong candidates that did get offers would head for Cambridge . However that was never explained at Open Days or on the website (they may have corrected it now) so basically those candidates wasted a UCAS choice.

It is an example of what can be happening behind the scenes.

Need may be right, but OP's DD looks more than qualified for this course and it is usually not particularly oversubscribed - 80% of applicants receive offers, and the typical offers are below OP's DD's predictions. (However, the typical entrance grades look to be above the typical offer, and more in line with her predictions.)

And it's hard to see why Exeter would offer so late and the other 4 (similar) courses on biological sciences would have offered so much earlier, since surely the latter would get medic applications too. The other courses seem to have similar offer rates to Exeter.

The other thing that is confusing me is that Exeter is short of science students and is trying to get more (was told this by an Exeter academic last week). It's not entirely true that lab subjects have strict caps on numbers now - most universities have expanded these courses quite a bit over the last 3 years, by running extra lab sessions.

All the above makes perfect sense although does not explain why (from memory) other competitive universities with medical student intake were able to issue offers immediately to TP's daughter.
In any case an added line on the Exeter website info about offer deadlines stating that this deadline is more delayed for certain departments (with examples) would be better PR and avoid a number of TP type phone calls

In my old job I had a lot to do with postgraduate admissions. I once attended a meeting where the marketing department presented the results of a survey they'd done with various students who'd applied the previous year - I think they'd managed to contact some who'd turned their offers down as well as a group who were by this stage in their first year at our place. They wanted to know what had influenced the students to accept or reject an offer where they had a choice between several courses/universities. Very, very high on the list was the response the student had had when they contacted the university. If the phone rang and rang and nobody answered, or if they left a message and got no response, that was often enough to tip the balance towards another university. Similarly, speaking to one friendly, helpful person could convince them that that was the one to go for.

Yes, many universities use SITS as their student database, and it synchs with UCAS. However, most of them now have applications software as well which makes it really, really easy (as I said last night) to communicate with applicants. I can't for the life of me understand why they don't use it to better effect. It's not rocket science, is it? Say from the outset what the timescales will be. If it becomes clear that you can't stick to those, for whatever reason, let the applicants know. If communication is this bad at the application stage, I'd be wondering how bad it is once you're actually there. It would certainly have influenced my decision if I'd been an applicant.

IME (and I have plenty of it) university departments all have a heap of "maybe" applicants that they deal with right at the end of the UCAS cycle. I think the OP just needs to accept that, for Exeter, her DD is one of the "maybe" applicants. Better than being an outright no, surely?

abraid state schools and sixth form colleges could advise a two year process but then they would have to engage in the ongoing process for ex pupils.

Frankly, many do not have the resources or the inclination for that.

Private schools are very concerned with their ex pupils ( who can be very useful to them in the long term) and so are willing to invest the necessary resources.

bobo I think it depends on your pecking order.

Sometimes a no is fine. Then the applicant can firm their first choice and get on with applying for accommodation/ finance etc.

If the university is an applicant's first it second choice, then yeah, a maybe is good - you're still in the running.

My nephew is still waiting for an answer from his preferred university. He has offers from all four others (including Exeter ). He's not apoplectic about it - he knows universities don't have to respond until the end of the cycle. I think some families haven't read or understood the small print.

What does reapplication actually require a school to do though, other than redo references?

It depends abraid.

Advice, help with PS, help with interview technique, references, help with placements during gap year.

Some students want to change completely on their second pass depending on what their grades turned out to be and what they can set up during their gap year.