Exeter offers : incompetent or arrogant?

[TalkinPeace]

DD submitted her form last October
Exeter have still not had the courtesy to send an offer (the other four Unis all have)
when phoned they said

• no offers have been issued (bollocks as DDs friends have theirs)
  
• offers will be made by end of December (bollocks as its now late march)
  
• offers will be made right after the UCAS cut off date (bollocks as it was in January)
  
• offers will be made by the end of March ........
  

Exeter are arrogant liars
the word needs to go round

[sendsummer]

Talkin best of luck to your DD in coping with all the downturns, her exams and the next phase. I can imagine your DD as a rather determined person.

[Molio]

TP I'll second Uhtred. Sorry about the shitty stuff happening. FWIW I've never posted about shitty stuff either on these threads but several of my DC happen to have taken public exams in quite exceptionally difficult family circumstances and no-one has ever put in for mitigation because they insisted that would be soft. I hope life gets sunnier soon.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

Talkin' - sounds like both our DSs are the same. Cattle prod would be good here too. If it could be automated. I think an 'easy' 6th form offer may have been a double edged sword.

I'm sorry your DD has had shit happen this year. I know only too well what it's like having a child go into big exams having had loads of crap to cope with just at the wrong time. I suppose that may have informed my approach slightly because when it happened to DD1 there was nothing I could do, but she had inner resilience already because I'd been trying to build it up over the years (as a result of seeing in my own family (and knowing what happened in DH's family) what happens when someone doesn't have that inner resilience and then the shit hits the fan big time). It sounds though like your DD has that inner resilience too so hopefully she will be fine :) Have you sorted out accommodation now at her firm choice?

[BertrandRussell]

I just want develishpyjamas to come back!

[TaIkinPeace]

I'm loving the way this thread has derailed.
Genuinely pleased that it has become discursive (rather than repeating loops)

FWIW DD has a very clear view of where she wants her degree to take her.
I tend not to post about the particular shite that has landed on her plate in the last year as its the way it goes.
I'll be interested to see if she sticks to her plan.

After all I left Uni vowing never to work in an office and became an accountant

I genuinely do not believe I have helicopter parented her - you saw in one post the outcome of 6 months lack of communication.
DS needs more attention and a cattle prod

as yes, the greatest FAIL as a parent is to induce failure to launch
I've seen it - I do not want it to happen to my kids

On the other hand I know how dispiriting it is to have parents who cannot be bothered to attend your graduation.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

I think the possibilities for cross disciplinary stuff to be valuable rather than an indication that the person choosing to plough a cross disciplinary furrow isn't good enough at the main thing is definitely ... Not new, but different from when I was at uni anyway. I changed horses midway through my degree, and did an unrelated part II - in my case this was because I'd been in a car crash and then in hospital for months and months and therefore had to repeat a year (because I missed a whole term and more). Nothing was the same after that, and I jumped at the chance to 'start fresh' with my part II and do something that hadn't already been impacted by what had happened to me. At the time, that possibly looked to people who didn't know the full story that I wimped out of my original subject - but it's the single thing that has propelled me through my subsequent career - I was a much more appropriately educated person for what I ended up doing as a result - and a much happier one because I no longer felt like I was being reminded every day of what had happened (it was pretty traumatic). The cross disciplinary and multi module options available to kids today fascinate me - because they offer so much potential - but I can't deny that they also bemuse me because that sort of breadth just wasn't there when I was young. The mention of financial maths modules is actually sort of a case in point (although not a great example because at the end of the day it's all still maths, just applicable rather than pure or applied).

[sendsummer]

Ah, just goes to show how careful I have to be to not misinterpret things.
Yes you are right plus lots of views on here are interesting insights for me outside my experience even if inot particularly relevant to my family.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

I actually meant our input to our kids. Not our input on here - I always assume that most of the people who comment on something only do so if they know that they know what they are talking about instead of just hoping that they know what they are talking about. The info about the future of science was really interesting - I thought, anyway - there are so many things available to our kids that just weren't available to us. I find that my peers eg at work tend to thnk in terms of traditional subjects and that really isn't necessarily the world we live in today.

[sendsummer]

Uhtred So maybe our input should we choose to give it is not as helpful as we think it is
IMO information and opinions are always going to be just bits and pieces in an ensemble (and for reasons of privacy the context of offered information can't often be revealed) but personally I would not want posters to feel reluctant to post in case their contributions are not supremely helpful and accurate. I do think though that there are some dogmatic views by some posters including possibly the OP which are difficult to shake.

[hayita]

I agree that there can be overlaps e.g. between chemistry and chemical engineering and civil engineering and geology.

But I heard tales of RG universities offering geology in place of electronic engineering and chemistry in place of mechanical engineering where the overlaps are small.

[SquirrelledAway]

hayita You'd be surprised how much overlap there can be between geology and engineering - and I'm saying that as a geologist who worked as a civil engineer.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

Sendsummer I think this points up a useful thing to remember - the world is changing. Most of us might if we are lucky know something useful and still relevant about one thing. We are unlikely to know something useful and still relevant about all the things though. So maybe our input should we choose to give it is not as helpful as we think it is.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

Hayita - yes I agree with all of that.

Re accountancy degrees at Exeter (something I know a lot about) - yes, it was a 3A course back in the 90s for sure, and earlier. It has been a highly regarded course within the profession for decades. Some very eminent Exeter accountancy graduates have reached the heights of the profession. The employment rates have always been great. I would never say that an accountancy degree was for muppets, because that's clearly not true. However it is true that an accountancy degree is no longer the most attractive thing for someone entering the profession to have. It's not UNattractive. And it is probably very helpful if you want to work in Europe (especially going forward) or the US . But there are concerns and have been for a while. To be fair the very best places to do accountancy have taken those concerns aboard and tried to broaden out what their courses offer. But the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, it's too early to say yet how that will work out.

i haven't read the Oxford maths thread. I know Oxford mathmos who have done very nicely for themselves in the profession without ever doing any financial maths modules at uni. But I doubt doing those modules if you are interested in them could harm you in any way. Even if you are French.

[sendsummer]

I agree with Hayita about this type of natural sciences courses. As I said up thread, anybody considering a research career in biosciences who is also strong in maths would be improving their future research prospects and avenues by developing their skills in maths and computer sciences for bioinformatics.

[hayita]

Hayita but if she wanted to do it she would have applied for it, surely?

This specific student was not interested in an alternative offer. Other applicants for her course may well have been, so in this sense I don't think Exeter's alternative offer was unreasonable. It's not unusual for universities to reject dropped grades in August for popular courses such as engineering and offer alternates such as chemistry or geology (which are under subscribed). These offers I do find strange, as such courses have no overlap at all. But natural sciences and biosciences do overlap and indeed natural sciences has higher entrance grades.

Certainly Exeter did not handle things well - everyone agrees this. They should have told her earlier she was in the "maybe" pile, they should have asked whether she was at all interested in alternative courses and they should have made an effort to explain why Natural Sciences could be suitable for her.

[Quook]

Sorry Need I accidentally posted too soon.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

Hayita but if she wanted to do it she would have applied for it, surely? I'm not saying it's a silly course. I know it's very well funded and resourced. But she didn't fancy it.

[UhtredRagnorsson]

Molio - ah, we had parents' evenings every blooming term. Plus many of the teachers knew many of the parents socially (well. If you can call being in the same parish knowing them socially). I had some friends whose parents were all over their homework etc at school. So perhaps not an entirely modern phenomenon.

Me, I hate parents' evening, I'd be really happy if we never had to go. I find it one of the most stressful things there is. All that judging.

[Needmoresleep]

Sorry cross post. I worried Quook's angry face was aimed at my previous post.

[Needmoresleep]

[Quook]

. Some of us don't get patents evenings now. In theory my DCs school had them but the were reserved for kids that REALLY needed them and even then I think there was only a evening worth of appointments for hundreds of kids. Out of four kids I probably attended two parents and even then u didn't see al their teachers.

It wasn't the teachers fault.

So no, still no parents evening for some of us with kids at non selective schools

BTW - our kids choose their school and we're glad they went there. We could have paid privately and they had paces out of county for a grammar school so I'm not moaning in a bitter way.

[Quook]

[Needmoresleep]

I'm getting lost. Surely the point is that some children have more social capital and thus better access to informed advice. DH is an economist and DS is studying economics. It is natural for them to discuss options, content, who is teaching and so on. DS will make his own decisions but welcomes input. He is lucky he has an uncle who is a lawyer and one who is an engineer and so had he been studying a different subject he might well have had similar discussions with one of them. The type of school is part of this but not the only part.

There are some generous posters: Molio, Hayita and AlreadyTaken to name but three, who are willing to share their experience and knowledge. Indeed I am particuarly grateful to AlreadyTaken for helping steer me, and thus by extention DD, through the maze of Medical School applications. If "which Oxford College" is a legitimate question, which medical school is more so. No one is right all the time, but there are plenty whose views are worth hearing. The kneejerk response of "stealth boasting" or something about the inequity of state/private is tedious. Higher Education is a huge investment decision and kids have varying degrees of access to good advice. MN is not perfect but is another source of information.

I also think Littleham, upthread was right. It really depends on the child. Some need more help than others, for a variety of reasons. Yes, I never saw DS' PS. DD was very ill last summer so getting a UCAS application in by the October deadline was a real struggle. DC grow up pretty fast during Yr 13 and the first year of University. But some faster than others. With some really struggling and needing support from both home and school/University. There is no firm rule, but a case of trying to find the right balance.

FWIW I think Hayita is probably right in terms of her advice to OP about Natural Sciences. We certainly picked up similar when looking at Plan Bs for would be medic DD. And I am pretty sure that Hayita's points about Financial Maths are correct as well. DS's degree is overwhelmingly Financial Maths, yet he would not claim to be a mathematician.

[Alwaysfrank]

I'm glad I didn't know any of this elitist nonsense back in the day! The accountancy degree had one of the highest grade requirements in the faculty iiirc. In fact I remember being sniffy about someone who came onto our course "via the back door" having started on an economics degree.

The employers certainly weren't put off - they came calling in the autumn term before the main milk round started, and everyone I knew had multiple offers to choose from.

[hayita]

But the French system does have its elite segment, which is far more exclusionary & elitist than most in Britain.

Yes, indeed. In the other thread I didn't say that I agreed with the French system.

Throughout most of Europe accountancy modules are not viewed in the same way as maths modules. In a country such as Holland, for example, accountancy modules aren't usually taught in university - they are taught in the analogue of our old polytechnics - so having accountancy modules on your CV would indeed suggest to Dutch employers that you weren't strong enough to do university level material. They don't know the nuances of the UK higher education system any more than most UK employers know about Dutch universities.