Despite having the right grades, my child is not applying to Oxbridge because ....

[TalkinPeace]

• she wants to live in self catered accommodation
• she does not like the small sizes of the colleges / social units
• having to go back to college for lunch while doing a lab based degree does not make sense
• the whole gown and formal dinner stuff smacks of coat tails rather than standing on own feet
• she does not fancy fighting through hordes of tourists while moving between buildings
• having a tutor picked by which college they are based in rather than their research specialism seems very odd to her

Also, for what she wants to do, the course at Oxford is not that well balanced
and Cambridge, despite having a fab course was not a place that felt like home when she visited for 2 days.

So she will be putting other Universities on her form and taking a great deal of stress out of this house.

For what its worth, those of her friends I've chatted to are also ruling out Oxbridge in favour of other Unis because of the first four points.

What are other people's reasons for ruling out Oxbridge, despite having the grades?

Oceanog is pretty much only here at an international level and she wanted to keep her options much, much wider open than a specific degree would offer

TBH I think a lot of the "narrow" degrees should go back to being second degrees because too many kids are accruing massive debts in degrees with limited job pools

It was something that impressed me with the Oxbridge lists that the only narrow degrees were the ones aimed at those with career paths mapped out by their family history. All the others seemed pretty balanced.

Mum I think things have changed a bit since your experience. At least for the subjects I know about, I understand that applicants that meet certain requirements have to be pooled if the college doesn't make them an offer. So you can have a situation where subject X at college Y has 3 places, only 6 applicants apply, none of them are wanted but all have to be pooled. College Y will then make offers to 3 applicants pooled by other colleges. But this may differ from subject to subject.

to whoever asked - no it isnt based entirely on medicine, it's a general observation about Oxbridge and more based on Oxford than Cambridge since I know more Oxford graduates than Cambridge.

This thread seems to be more about a parent wanting their child to apply than the young person's views. If they have had a look and it isn't what they want to do that is their choice. Personally I would try to put a child off if they were a borderline applicant because my impression is that they more often struggle when they do get in.

It does seem to be a bit about parental ambitions and the silly reasons DC can come up with for not going along with them.

But hey, the reasons for my choice of university was a) it was good for the subject and b) it was near to the sea. Or it might have been a) it was near to the sea, and the fact that it was good was a bonus.

What do you mean about family history TP? And which degrees are you talking about?

Mum I can't see that your bf's wait for Cambridge was any worse than any wait that any applicant has for any uni place that they've set their heart on. Also, as far as Oxbridge goes, the Oxford interviews are given at much shorter notice than Cambridge's December interviews and far fewer applicants are interviewed so it can get pretty tense - sometimes only four or five days notice and sometimes with a surprise thirty page extract to analyse. It's universally hellish, the waiting game :)

I certainly think that if she's not keen, then pushing her to apply with marginal grades might be something she resents later, if rejected - which with natural sciences at Cambridge is distinctly more probable than not. Unless she's very keen, it's better to use the five choices a bit more selectively.

Where does she fancy OP? Am I thinking Bath was a possibility?

Molio
There are certain courses where 2/3 of applicants get in and there is no clear income path on exit, this is one of them
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/anglo-saxon-norse-and-celtic

shegot
Once you list the Campus Universities that do Biology + / Nat sci, its a pretty short list

Father - that's interesting. When I applied the College made it very clear that those who were pooled were only those that the College felt were very definitely good enough for Cambridge and had "passed" the interview and that they would take if they had more space. If I remember right the stats were something like 10 - 20% offer, 10 - 20% pool, 60 - 80% rejection. But the it's been nearly 20 a few years since I applied so things could be completely different.

Molio Excluding A level results day, I remember the pool thing as being the most stressful part of university applications. Which considering it wasn't about me, I was a very self centred teenager, we hadn't been together very long at that point so I wasn't that bothered and I had my own Cambridge application plus 5 other pretty competitive courses going on means it must have been pretty rotten.

But agree - any Oxbridge / medicine / vet etc application is not for the faint hearted!

mumoftwo
Its not a secret that DD's original plan was to be a Vet
then she did her first week of work experience
and started looking into the requirements
and they are mad

amazingly, Cambridge is the sanest of the Vet courses, probably because the whole Uni is so high power that the vet students do not stick out

but the idea of 6 years, no holiday due to having to clock up the experience hours and having a very narrow set of job opportunities
was what made her look as "facilitating" first degrees

Med : I cannot see why anybody would do that in a town like Cambridge, when they could have access to all of the London hospitals

Anglo saxon, norse and celtic is relatively less over subscribed but it is a course which leads into generic graduate professions. It would not be viewed particularly differently than classics or MML when applying for law or the like.

Although it is not as over subscribed as many other Cambridge subjects I wouldn't say it is easy to get into - students still need high grades and if interviewers don't find good enough candidates they just don't take any.

I don't know where the family bit comes from. Nobody, but nobody, gets into Oxbridge because of family connections (cf Ivy League where family connections count positively for entry). The few people I knew studying Anglo saxon, norse and celtic as an undergraduate came from state schools and went on to law, finance and management consultancy.

Irrelevant now of course - but the vast majority of the medics I hung out with (all those years ago) were from London. And knew they would be going back there eventually. They wanted the fun of being in Cambridge.

FWIW the people with Oxbridge educated parents invariably chose the other place - and a very different subject.

I know three current medic students all doing very well and with excellent academic grades going in, work experience and that ability to talk to all ages. Two received just one offer and one had two.

Not sure that medics get much choice as to where they study!

I only know one potential vet student and she lives and breaths academic work, animal work experience and a sport. And she isnt even sitting her GCSEs until next year! I'm not sure the requirements will be considered insane just normal!

Gruach
I grew up in a Dark Blue house. When I was looking at my options it was made very clear that choosing Light Blue involved no parental support at all

There was an element of that TP. Several tales of people changing their minds at the very last minute as their pen hovered over the (surely it was UCCA back then?) form - entirely against parental expectation.

My point is - I didn't and still don't know more than one or two people who followed in the family footsteps regarding university, college or subject.

Talkin,
I do not quite see why Anglo-Saxon-Norse and Celtic would be mapped out by family history - barring being directly related to Bede or Ragnar Lodbrok and wanting to foliow in their footsteps. It seems to me it is as good as any at providing transferable skills. Also as Mum says as I understand it if you aren't of their standard - they won't take you regardless of applicants per place ratio.

I did a component of Old English and Old High German in my degree. Got a job completely unrelated to it. OK a long time ago - but e.g. historians or theologians are employable other than being history academics or priests.

Fair enough if she doesn't want to apply, but reasons 1-5 don't necessarily apply in most Oxbridge colleges.

DN was pooled last year and it was pretty nail biting. She had an impeccable academic record (11A* etc) and the interview went very well but she wasn't successful. It's just a numbers thing and she's very happy where she is now.

As for subjects such as Anglo Saxon and Norse, I know many people who did this who now have careers in the law.

(One or two people have pointed that out in the previous 218 posts Liara )

I know one person who read ASN&C at Cambridge. They are doing fine in a city job.

If DD1 applies she may well apply to my old college, nothing to do with me, she went to an open day at a different one and fell in love with mine when she met me there afterwards. If she does apply there though I suspect she will be keeping the family connection extremely quiet I doubt it would do anything but disadvantage her (I once set a kitchen on fire. By accident). The thing about my old college though, is that I can see why she thinks it would be a good fit for her with her particular challenges. But it's by no means certain she will apply (today we had quite a long diatribe on how impossible it would be for her to construct a competitive PS (she has seen a successful PS from last year which has seriously zinged her)).

I'd like to echo what the previous bazillion posters have said about lunches etc, but a few additional points I'm not sure anyone has made:

1. If your DD is still considering applying to Cambridge, then I heartily recommend her asking about catering on www.applytocambridge.com/ - questions get passed to a Facebook group of Cambridge students and recent graduates from all colleges, who can give input as to the catering facilities and any kitchen charges. The only one I know to definitely avoid would be Gonville & Caius, which have a requirement to attend a set number of formals per term.

1. Oxford has not got set requirements for GCSE grades www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements . The average applicant has 4-9 A grades at GCSE, but this is considered in comparison to the average GCSEs in the school - 3 As from a failing comp are considered better than 3 A*s from Eton.

1. If you think your DD has not performed as well as she maybe deserves at A-level, but would shine in interview, she would be better applying to Cambridge where ~80% of applicants are interviewed. If her GCSEs are good and she's likely to perform better in an entrance exam than an interview, Oxford is the better choice.

1. Regarding size of college vs. size of halls of residence: at most universities, halls of residence are only freshers, whereas at most Oxbridge colleges all years live in college accommodation. Comparing cohort in each yeargroup isn't particularly relevant - as all years live together (instead of 2nd year + being in private rented accommodation) there are not as many social barriers between years, and freshers won't just mingle with other freshers. Many colleges actively encourage this, through "college families" etc. This is more true in colleges with few sites than those which are spread across 3 or 4 locations across town, though.

TP but can you actually explain your family comment? The fact that you're pointing to a relatively less competitive course doesn't throw up any particular connection to family.

I'm also curious as to why you've been so keen for years for your DD to go to Oxford or Cambridge but now you're slightly slagging off both. Why the sea change? If you 'grew up in a Dark Blue house' and considered 'Light Blue' yourself, then no doubt you had a good idea of what applications to these places and life there entails?

Lots of medics prefer Oxford or Cambridge to London. DS preferred it by miles and had the option of Imperial or Oxford. Lots of students get offers from both and turn down London in favour of Oxford and Cambridge. Each to their own.

molio
What went on in Uni applications 30 / 50 years ago is not a good guide to today.
So I did not use it.
I also - rashly - assumed that life had moved on since I last bunked down in an Oxford College. Silly me.

"Family" comment : Tim Nice but Dim and his chums. I've recently crossed swords with some of them professionally.
Up themselves does not even get close.
If you genuinely thing that thick ultra rich kids are not shooed into Oxbridge, you are even more blinkered than my DD was when I was minded to start this thread.

I genuinely don't think that I'm blinkered about Oxbridge entrance TP and my knowledge of it doesn't come from 30/ 50 years ago; it's current. And no I don't think that thick ultra rich kids have a free ride in any more, although obviously there's a fairly broad range of ability at both universities.

So why the sea change? And I thought you went to Durham as an undergrad, like me? Perhaps I got that wrong, but I thought you'd said you weren't an Oxford grad?