Despite having the right grades, my child is not applying to Oxbridge because ....

[TalkinPeace]

• she wants to live in self catered accommodation
• she does not like the small sizes of the colleges / social units
• having to go back to college for lunch while doing a lab based degree does not make sense
• the whole gown and formal dinner stuff smacks of coat tails rather than standing on own feet
• she does not fancy fighting through hordes of tourists while moving between buildings
• having a tutor picked by which college they are based in rather than their research specialism seems very odd to her

Also, for what she wants to do, the course at Oxford is not that well balanced
and Cambridge, despite having a fab course was not a place that felt like home when she visited for 2 days.

So she will be putting other Universities on her form and taking a great deal of stress out of this house.

For what its worth, those of her friends I've chatted to are also ruling out Oxbridge in favour of other Unis because of the first four points.

What are other people's reasons for ruling out Oxbridge, despite having the grades?

Of course ultra rich kids don't get a free ride.

There's a huge amount of pressure to make sure they get the good people who are not the stereotype, isn't there? I'm not saying there's no unconscious bias, because that would be idiotic. But come on.

talkin, your DD isn't being 'blinkered' - I think that's you!

She had some quite sensible reasons for not choosing Oxbridge. Many people on this thread have confirmed they were sensible.

What is so wrong with her decision?

I'm not "anti Oxbridge"
I'd have loved my DD to leap at the opportunity and grasp what I was not able to
I've done my level best to make all options available
I was however shocked by how "meh" Cambridge made both DH and I and her feel.
He goes to Unis all over the country and came home so underwhelmed that I took her to the second day up there to see if I could persuade
but I could not
I found the "Cambassadors" and the "yah" punt sales people even more irritating than the ones in Oxford
so when DD came out of her event very underwhelmed by the organisation and feel and information and atmosphere, I could not counteract.

Hence my opening post
if she and I and DH had that many misconceptions after the amount of contact time and post 2014 research, it should be a concern at the Unis
because we cannot be the only ones (despite what this thread might imply)

molio what is is with you. Ive read so many threads on here, but somehow when it involves your long winded opinions, you come across very arrogant, a little miss know it all. You love showing off, rambling on about your dc at every opportunity. Great, bet they have done you proud!. But please the OP just wants some opinions and advice?? You seem to realish on picking arguments with others, pull people down. You start off sincere then turn into a bit of a bully and nit pick. It's not very nice.

talkin, it does concern them.

That's why there is so much fuss about it - because there are so may people worried.

As this thread indicates, loads of people have the same feelings as you (and your DD).

The difficulty is, what should be done?

I find this hard, because I know lots of people who chose not to apply to Oxbridge, and who felt that was the right choice.

But I also know a lot of people who were not encouraged to apply, who would have been brilliant candidates. Some of them really felt cheated that they weren't encouraged more. Others accepted they weren't good enough, but clearly were. It makes me furious and sad.

What would you like us to do?

(I mean, short of banning the punt salespeople, who I do agree are annoying, but who are tourist attractions and, oddly enough, nothing to do with the university.)

Well everyone can't like everything. If she has a bad feeling about it then she shouldn't waste her time fretting over it. The key thing now is to identify a uni (ideally 2 or 3) that she does like. If you can't do that then yes there is a problem - but it's highly unlikely there won't be a few out there that click with her...This should be a positive time, full of excitement and hope and ambition, not one full of worry or negativity.

If you genuinely think that thick ultra rich kids are not shooed into Oxbridge, you are even more blinkered than my DD was when I was minded to start this thread.

What evidence do you have for this? My DS has some school friends whose parents are rich. They were not "shooed in" to Oxford, i.e. they got there on merit or they did not get in.

Caveat - I have only one son and therefore only one experience of the Oxford admission process.

Seriously though, where does you evidence of rich "thick" kids getting into Oxbridge come from ? I am honestly interested.

Your DD must make her own decision, but, in truth, I am not sure you are disinterested or informed enough to give her decent advice ( other than your previous post which said you would try to counteract some of her pre-conceptions which many posters have said are possibly misconceived. )

Absolute bollocks Piddly. I don't have any long winded opinions and if I did I wouldn't air them on here. Nor have I mentioned my DC at all, other than the DS re London. Please show me where I ramble about my DC if you expect credibility. I barely mention them, in comparison to others. Delighted to be proved wrong, but you'll have a struggle. If I want to ask TP what she means about family etc, I'll do exactly that. What a weird intervention .

I will say - the feeling of being underwhelmed and 'meh' doesn't always go away.

I know people who felt that, and they hated their universities (not just Oxbridge). The person I know who had the worst time went to a good Russell Group, good for their subject, but just hated it. It was a waste of time.

So if you can't feel enthusiasm for a place, or the course there, FGS don't go. You only get one chance at funding, unless you're very lucky, so don't mess i up with something you don't like.

Talkin,
I type too slowly. Your last post I have great sympathy with and if she were not made to feel welcome - I get that.

DS went on an open day and 3 out of 4 colleges made him feel welcome - the other one - not so much. I understand that. If she only saw one set of people would it be worth a return visit?

That said - Oxbridge hasn't cornered the market in excellence. BUT they are up there. My reason for taking the time to post is that your DD is clearly clever. Do not let her limit her options based on false objections. Make sure they are real ones. Equally, if she is not at this particular stage in her life a natural candidate or ready for it , go to one of the other excellent universities available.

I wish her well.
Hocus.

Still interested to hear your evidence for "Tim Nice But Dim ££££" being a shoo in though [grin}

- obviously

We're quite common and have a Y12 DC who is now on the Oxbridge track for quite a niche subject.

They are keen because the course offered is exactly what they want to do, luckily their recent AS results are pretty stellar.

I've got an older one at uni, and in my limited experience it should be the course/enthusiasm for the subject that guides applications. Not the perceived prestige of particular institutions.

Fwiw, my DC has an ex poly on their list - again because of the course.

Thing is - and this is right now, not decades ago - I've been watching little boys progress from quite possibly the best ever prep school to the sort of public school that would be ultra well placed to shoo in if they felt so inclined. And, honestly, Horatio Nice but Dim would not stand a chance. His Prep school Head would have been on his knees begging the parents not to attempt that particular public school. If they insisted Horatio would be C listed and simply have to go somewhere else. Somewhere that only gets the odd few into Oxford or Cambridge. And he wouldn't be amongst them. Possibly wouldn't even get into the sixth form.

So I don't see a current shoo in pathway. Not from UK public schools anyway. Arch & Anth; Land Economy; whatever ...

Oh! I also knew just one AngloSaxon person in college. She was utterly delightful and I would have liked to be her friend - but it was well known that she worked fantastically hard and was rarely seen in the bar or stuffing her face with kebab at two in the morning ...

It's a weird intervention because I gotten rather fed up, as I am sure others do too, especially when you start to nit pick, ive seen you do it in other threads. Then all hell breaks out, bun fight the lot , it's a running theme!

And, honestly, Horatio Nice but Dim would not stand a chance.

So I don't see a current shoo in pathway. Not from UK public schools anyway. Arch & Anth; Land Economy; whatever ...

I agree with Gruach. (and to be fair my experience is limited)

However , I am sure other parents would be interested to know where you know people who have waltzed into top universities whilst being not being particularly academic/ talented/ interested and engaged, because their parents were rich.

I'm calling you on this one Talkin. (I have no right to and you can ignore me obviously) but I simply do not believe that Britain's top universities are available to the Tims whose parents have lots of money - forget Oxbridge - any good university which values its reputation.

Call me naive etc (insert gag of your choice.............

^I was however shocked by how "meh" Cambridge made both DH and I and her feel.
He goes to Unis all over the country and came home so underwhelmed
so when DD came out of her event very underwhelmed by the organisation and feel and information and atmosphere, I could not counteract^

It is rather sad when these open day or outreach events do not inspire but unfortunately the 'front of house' of some top universities do not reflect the excellence of the academics that happens day to day. The most academic institutions have amassed a wealth of very knowledgeable bright staff but the premise is that it is up to the student to seek that out and make the most of it and therefore 'salesmanship' is not a priority.
Talkin, your DH if he is an academic would know that. These events are dependent on the personalities who are allocated the task to run them and most Oxbridge academics value time spent on research more than attracting the next generation.

'This unusual and challenging degree develops your powers of argument and sharpens your powers of analysis. It equips you for a wide range of careers where intellectual and analytical skills are important.

‘Asnac’ (as they like to be called) graduates can be found in a wide range of careers. Some take advantage of the specialist opportunities open to them and do research and teaching in schools and universities, or work in museums and libraries; while many others go into careers including journalism, publishing, banking, law, the Civil Service, industry and business, and even software development.'

A student who can learn a dead language from scratch is a student who could do anything. Most of my university friends did very similar courses and have ended up in a wide variety of careers where versatile and able brains were required.

If you're looking for a clear income path upon graduation it might be better to do a vocational course.

'If you genuinely thing that thick ultra rich kids are not shooed into Oxbridge, you are even more blinkered than my DD was when I was minded to start this thread.'
I don't see how you can see Tim Nice But Dim getting shooed into Oxbridge means finding a niche for himself in obscure languages and the history of the mists of time. ASNC is off the beaten track but I do not understand how that equates to providing a comfy and unnoticed home for the rich or the connected from which to launch themselves into the City or law after three years of hoorahing around with kindred spirits.

HocusUcas, there are some leading and not so leading American universities where legacies matter, but for the most part their reputations are in good hands.

Talkin who are these 'Nicebutdim' types you think populate Oxbridge. My own college had numerous public school educated undergrads. All were very bright.

Math , you have me there. I know almost nothing about US universities. Whatever their legacy system is, I suspect they will protect their reputation. Sorry, I was just trying to counter the implication that "Tim Nice but Dim" could walk into a good UK university if he doesn't have what it takes to keep up the university's academic reputation.

Your point about Old Norse etc - you put it so much better than I did .
So - I am setting myself up for a fall here - but anyone who can learn a language from scratch , and if that language is perhaps inflected ( implication - logical mind) and can also analyse and comment in well written essays on literature written in that language - well, aren't there are some transferable skills there?

I think I may be just saying what you said Math

I went to uni 30 years ago (!). At my comprehensive school in south Wales the senior tutor encouraged me to apply to Oxbridge. My parents did not go to university and I felt totally overwhelmed at the prospect.

I said I didn't want to go because one of the unis didn't have a course I liked and the other course did animal experiments.

I went to a non RG uni and later did a doctorate at a RG one. I have a successful and rewarding career. I'm still a committed vegetarian now but I look back on that decision and it makes me smile. My reason was true but not the whole truth.

Being from a mining community I wrote an essay in my politics exam about the Rule of Law and the Miner's Strike and got an A. Maybe 30 years ago that perspective would have been welcomed at Oxbridge but I lacked the confidence to even try to find out.

DD is really interested in Cambridge and I hope she will have the confidence to apply or decide not to. For my DD (aside from the issue of getting in of course) the main issue would be the pace of work from what I have seen of other young people there. She loves the subject but she's kind of laid back with it.

TP isn't it about time to put aside this issue with rich kids?

You spend so much time trying to prove they're all stupid! You see evidence anywhere and everywhere.

You're simply not so dull as to think that studying Norse or whatever is easy. Could you do it? You are also perfectly capable of seeing that the average grades of a Norse student are in line with your DD's (and you think she's very clever).

Seriously, let this nonsense go! Your DD is going to get the shock of her life if this is what she's being raised to believe, wherever she goes to university.

Miners' not Miner's

Obv made the right decision not to try for Oxbridge!

I'm rather taken with the idea of one Very Cross miner downing tools, holding a press conference and bringing the country to a halt ...

Chillywhippet could still be speaking for many young people now, where their school sends a few to University but probably not Oxbridge. I am thinking of the sort of school for which the universities would make contextual offers. Someone from e.g. Knowsley is just so unlikely to have the same confidence in applying as someone who has gone to Eton.

Then there is a time lag between the public perception of an institution's reputation and what is actually happening there. Oxbridge used to take your "Tim nice but dim" types, thinking here of Prince Edward with CDD for A levels, which even thirty odd years ago, wouldn't normally have got him into Cambridge, nor a good redbrick. I suspect that even the Royals wouldn't try to get someone with those grades into Oxbridge now.