Oxbridge Entry 2015

[Roisin]

Do we have a thread already?
ds1 has decided to definitely apply to Oxford to do Biochemistry. He will probably apply to St John's.

RatherBOTP sorry, I didn't reply to your question: personally no, I absolutely genuinely don't think it will affect Physics at all. There are a number of joint subjects where an applicant unsuccessful for the joint course will be considered by the single schools without prejudice to the main application. It's simply an additional option. If she's at all interested, then I'd definitely say go for it. The Materials building is vile, aesthetically, but other than that it could be a very good alternative option :)

RatherBOTP rather than asking random strangers on the internet for their personal, non-expert opinions why not read the official information from Oxford Physics which is completely unambiguous: www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduates/applications/admissions-procedures-for-physics.

dapoxen
That is rather harsh.
We are not just random strangers - but people keen to offer personal experience. I have always found MN a supportive community of people who are willing to share experience even tho' they rarely claim to be experts.

dapoxen a note of caution. Obviously there are excellent sources of official info out there but MN can offer additional, unofficial, often very seasoned and experienced advice. Who says it has to substitute? It's actually very shallow to assume that anything transmitted through the modern medium of the internet is 'non-expert' since frankly you can't have a clue who posters are. I personally find some of the most useful advice comes from those who don't declare any hand (as opposed to eg 'DH is a Cambridge admissions tutor therefore I know better than anyone whereof I speak' (no jokes, someone actually said that :)). It's wise to assess the source of advice but not that wise to arrogantly dump it, simply because it came through the internet. For example today I learnt that Exeter is dishing out extravagant two A* offers. I wouldn't have known it otherwise. That's useful to me, in a separate context, even though my DS isn't affected at all. And why are you here, if MN is so useless?

^)

MrsGhoulofGhostbourne It's rather frustrating when posters ignore factual information from universities and/or expert advice from academics, in favour of the personal opinions of individual parents.

There are many circumstances where sharing personal experiences is very useful, but there are others (e.g. specific questions about admissions policies) where taking personal opinions based on limited experience as facts is ill-advised.

It's a cliche, but the plural of anecdote is not data!

I don't think there's any danger that Rather - or more to the point, her daughter - will ignore the official line and blindly do anything we suggest. It's just nice to have a chat about things, talk stuff through

dapoxen interestingly, since your comments appear to be directed at me (apologies if it's a more general gripe), comparing what I've said to RatherBOTP prior to your post and link, there's a pleasing congruence: the Materials application won't disadvantage the Physics application and at most it might affect college allocation - see #14. A heightened chance of Teddy Hall, which is fine - a great college. Not that it says that much on the website :)

Best food in Oxford at the moment at Teddy Hall too, also not included on the Physics website :)

Obviously that comment is restricted to college food, not town food. In town the Magdalen Arms is fab, but booking essential.

Dapoxen, the publically available information from universities as posted on the websites is just one source of information and it could be a mistake to follow something blindly just because it is offical. I have seen several things were it is quite hard to pick out the meaning behind a statement.

Unless you are a materials science prof? In which case is certainly reassuring to be reassured that nominating Materials Science would not lessen the chance of being admitted to physics.

Molio tell us more about food at the different colleges? I heard that food at St Peters is good?

RandomFriend I'm not an academic at Oxford, but I know people who are (and studied Physics there as an undergraduate myself). You're right that sometimes the official policy isn't clear, but this isn't one of those cases. To quote the Oxford Physics web-site I (twice) posted a link to: "The two applications will be considered separately, and so candidates may be short?listed for either course, both courses, or neither course. If a candidate is considered suitable for both courses, then only an offer for physics will be made."

In the areas I'm familiar with (Physics and, to a lesser extent, Maths) Oxford & Cambridge have helpful web-pages describing their admissions processess clearly and in detail.

dapoxen It isn't always easy for parents to find the right information - sometimes another poster knows exactly where to find the most relevant link.

Agree about the links, have got lots of useful info for vastly differing issues on MN - in fact the other day when talking to a friend about it was astonished to remember all the ways in which it has been useful.
So when you have got info from Mnetters all thru' the DC growing up, is the natural place to go when looking for people who have been-there-done-that. (Random example: DH bemused a few weeks ago when we had a mouse in the house, instead of going to a rodent disposal website, first port of call was MN - and got lots of useful advice, real-life experience and links, and was able to rapidly sift to what I needed).
As always, the disclaimer is YMMV, but for example we saw below that Exeter are offering very differently from what their official website indicates. It was soon clarified on after someone called then, and then generously shared. (I am always so impressed by the generosity and collegiate spirit of mumsnetters )

RandomFriend "It isn't always easy for parents to find the right information - sometimes another poster knows exactly where to find the most relevant link."

And that's exactly why I posted, at the outset, a link to the Oxford Physics web-site which answered this particular question. And subsequently (re)suggested that the person who asked the question looked at that rather than asking random people for their opinions.

MrsGhoulsGhostbourne The Exeter AAA offers are indeed an example of an instance where sharing personal experiences is very useful. This does seem like a strange thing to do, in particular since it was clearly going to surprise and annoy or distress some applicants. It'll be very interesting to see how it plays out. However note that what's usually published (on the UCAS and universities website) are 'typical offers'. The offers made to particular sub-sets of students can always vary from this and many departments/universities only finalise their admissions strategy after the previous cycle concludes in August/September. So strictly speaking there's no 'false advertising' going on. It would be good for applicants if universities were made to publish information on the distribution of offers they make, and also the actual A-level grades of the students they admit, for each course annually. However admissions are an extremely complicated process with multiple competing tensions on everyone involved. This has been exacerbated by the government's recent changes to quotas (which, incidentally, sometimes means that even relatively recent personal experience may no longer be relevant). Moving to a post-qualification system would solve this (and many other) problems...

for Littleham -Thank you!

dapoxen I'm not quite sure why you took exception to my answering the question RatherBOTP asked of me. especially since what I replied is completely consistent with the official website, though I was able to add slightly more from my own personal knowledge (not much more admittedly). That's the point of MN surely? You make the elementary mistake of separating 'parents' into a defined group with no capacity for 'expert' knowledge, or indeed any knowledge - just mere 'opinion'. But parents do sometimes stray into other areas..... and some even have jobs . As it happens I'm not an Oxford physicist either (for very good reasons, one crucial one being that I was crap at physics :)). However I do have close links to three current members of the two departments and this precise question has come up. Not that I should have to justify how I know what little I know tbh. Anyhow, my view is that this can be a valuable forum which goes beyond official bumph and it's re-assuring to see others do too.

Also, sometimes it's just nice to have a few voices saying the same thing and being reassuring! People don't always (often!) think, well, I've read the official info, won't bother taking about this to anyone

That is exactly it Atia. We are all intelligent enough to do the research and find all the official sources of info but it is so lovely being able to chat about it all with other people going through the same thing. Just because we are talking to strangers on the internet about these things (and even asking them for advice) it does not mean we are not also checking out other sources of information.

This thread and the Y13 support thread are helping to keep me sane through all of this

Molio I didn't take exception to your answering RatherBOTP's question to you. I was querying whether it was necessary/sensible to ask you that specific question given that a clear, unambiguous official answer is available and had already been pointed out.

As I've already said, there are many circumstances where sharing personal experiences is valuable. However (and maybe I'm unusual...) for a specific question with a concrete answer, I'd rather have a clear answer from the official source (i.e. the people who are actually making the decisions) than anecdotes, opinions and 2nd hand information (singular or plural).

I like to hear from a variety of sources and then evaluate the reliability of each..
I have been badly burnt recently, having spent £9k on a course where the 'official' version was wildly at variance to the reality.
And anyone seeking info on that particular course would be better informed by the experience of me and my co-students than from reading the very misleading info on the university website.
Hence, I am very keen to hear anecdotal evidence - there is an awful lot of 'spin' from places eager to get their hands on your DC £27k...

I do read the official sources, but anecdotes, opinions and 2nd hand information are soooo much fun and keep me sane too. It often helps to have an unofficial explanation....makes it all a bit clearer somehow.

It is also really useful to have contrasting official opinions from people working in the university sector to quite rightly point out if I'm saying something completely crackers! quite a common occurrence

dapoxen going back to the Exeter two A* offers, clearly the 'official line', that the university is altruistically incentivising offerees to 'achieve their potential', is bollocks. The likely reality is that Exeter doesn't want to go into clearing again for its popular courses because too many Oxbridge offerees use it as insurance and then get their grades. Oxford and Cambridge of course don't face the Exeter/ Durham/ Bristol etc dilemma and their website info is therefore much more capable of being taken at face value.

I think perhaps our different academic backgrounds lead us to scrutinize evidence differently :) I'm a little cynical about 'official info' until I've questioned whether there's reason to buy it; you seem to accept it unflinchingly.

I welcome shared experience anyhow. It seems to me that those on these threads are easily sharp enough to weigh evidence and accept or discard it as seems fit.