Oxbridge Entry 2015

[Roisin]

Do we have a thread already?
ds1 has decided to definitely apply to Oxford to do Biochemistry. He will probably apply to St John's.

Roehampton the percentage of applicants interviewed is on the Oxford website. A few subjects interview almost everyone, so that's pretty easy :) Medicine has a formula all of its own but once you know your BMAT you can use the mathematical formula to work out your chances of interview, even though they don't interview a majority. For the subjects which interview a good number - say 70% - then 8A and a relatively good vibe after a pre-test should see you get an invite, whereas 4A and a sinking feeling maybe not so much. An invite isn't likely to come completely out of the blue is I suppose what I'm saying, nor a 'thank you but no thank you' either. Which subject are you interested in?

MrsB don't worry about the substitute personal statement. It's a new-for-this year thing; applicants can substitute a different personal statement for their ucas one but they have to tick a box which tells Durham that they're applying to Oxford or Cambridge. Also, no-one DS knows seems to be able to get their special statement to successfully upload and it has to be done within three days of the Durham acknowledgment anyway so the whole thing seems to be a complete can of worms.

Can I just slip in here quietly and ask a question of those with current knowledge of Oxbridge entry?

I went to both places donkey's years ago (undergrad and postgrad). I think I only got in as an undergrad to Oxford first because I went to a school that had never sent anyone there before. So they took pity on me. I was pooled and ended up happy enough at a less popular college.

Decades later, I now have 2 DCs who would love to follow in my footsteps but unlike me, they go to a school that sends loads of students to Oxbridge each year and although they're fairly bright, they're nowhere like genius level that some of their current peers seem to be.

We think that only the absolute 'certains' for Oxbridge are 'backed' by their school and I doubt DCs will be in that creme de le creme elite. My questions are: is it nowadays the case that if you've been to one of those v academic schools but haven't then been a straight 8 to 12 As and 4 (or more) As A level, do you not stand a chance, as you 'should' have achieved better at that kind of school?

Might DCs have been better going to a non academic school like me and then perhaps looking as if they were right there at the top and had potential but less rigorous preparation?

Second question: in the 'dark ages' when I was there, a friend told me that he'd researched the least subscribed subject and least popular college, just in order to go to Oxbridge at all - and he got in. Can there be certain obscure and unpopular subjects at unpopular colleges where someone has a much better chance of getting in?

Obviously this isn't a good reason to study a subject at uni but DCs are still young enough to not know what they want to do at uni and beyond and so if, for example one wanted to do law, post uni - could potentially do any traditional degree subject first?

From reading the thread above, it all seems so different to my day. I did an Oxford entrance exam with no tuition, essay based and in one of my A level subjects and then applied for a science!, flunked the several interviews, or so I though, but chatted happily about something completely different, as I was sure by that time I'd not got in and had never stood a chance. I was then given an unconditional offer and ended up at A level with 2 As (before the days of A* at all), a B and a C (in a subject I'd done 'for fun' with no lessons in it at all). Crazy to think now that I got a place and in a science rather than even in the Arts subjects I'd studied for A level!

So I sort of expect DCs have no chance these days if you need to jump through so many hurdles but just wanted to know if anyone could answer both of my questions above, if you have current knowledge of the Oxbridge entrance process?

That offer seems ridiculously high, I can't see what their thinking is.

I know TeaAndALemonTart, I don't understand it at all. Exeter must know that many of the students applying there are applying to Oxbridge and Durham as well as the London ones and that they are likely to be an insurance choice. I am quite annoyed as I feel dd has been misled into applying to Exeter as she trusted the guidelines they gave on their website as to the typical offers. It definitely has turned her against them.

Thanks, Molio. I will chat to dd about it but as long as it doesn't have to be done we will be ok. She spent long enough on her PS - can't bear the thought of her doing another one!

Mrs Bartlett DD didn't do a separate Durham statement. I slightly wish she had, as she might then have focused a bit more on their course requirements - her PS is v honest and "her" but it focuses entirely on the stuff she loves ie 1920s to 30s - and nothing at all about older stuff - not even Shakespeare.

Re Exeter, last year it was the standby choice of choice for humanities students at DD's middling to good girls' independent. But this year her tutor told them not to put it because it was upping its standard offer for independent school candidates. I scoffed at this as a bit tittle-tattly - but on this basis DD chose Sheffield (AAB) as her insurance instead. Her tutors are not usually on the ball.

Mrs B, the Durham sub PS has been around for a while, so not a new thing this year. DS1 briefly thought about doing it when he applied last year, but decided the only difference to his original UCAS PS would be the insertion of the word Durham at certain points. At the Durham open day last year someone did ask about it - this relates to history - and the admissions tutor answer was that he could recollect no more than 10 in all the History applications in the previous year (eg two years ago). Durham get around 1000 applications for History I think, so for that subject at least seemed very limited take up. I can see its use if the Durham course is very different to others that at DC is applying for.

BuddhasMum, interesting questions - which I don't know the answer to. Hope someone here does.

Figment the fact that your dd has focused on a particular interest in her PS sounds good to me. They want them to show depth of knowledge rather than breadth so hopefully it should stand her in good stead.

boys3 oh I thought it was new. Well if it's not, as it clearly isn't from what you say, then a) it's under the radar for a great many kids as well as teachers and b) they are even more spectacularly dopey at sorting out advice about it and technical support than I thought they were: it's an absolute shambles. Anyhow, it's main purpose - and not very brilliantly disguised - seems to be to flush out Oxbridge applicants, presumably to gauge their offers accordingly.

Buddha, well Cambridge say that they aim to interview all candidates who they feel would meet their entrance criteria, so for that stage at least whether a DC goes to Westminster or a standard comp in Walsall should not be a deciding factor. It appears they interview around 80% of applicants. GCSE's results way less important than AS - both grade and UMS. Different at Oxford, but as DS1 is at Cambridge I'll leave the abandoned parent's process to others.

I don't think there is any such thing as a certainty. Cambridge publish details of applicant numbers for every school plus the number of offers made (& acceptance of offers). So for example St Pauls in 2013 entry cycle had 71 apply and 39 get offers, so a success rate of just over 50%. Eton 31 offers from 62 applications. Whereas Dulwich College managed 9 out 33, Rugby 6 out of 28. In the maintained sector Tiffin, darling of the 11+ boards, 6/27 (boys) but 18/29 (girls); QE Barnet 22/53; The full data is here

www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/apply/statistics/archive/undergraduate_admissions_by_apply_centre_2013_cycle.pdf

There are loads of stats on course and college numbers and success rates too.

DontgotoRoehampton

Is that don't go to Roehampton?!!

Friend's DD just started this year, not sure which college. I did my PGCE there forever ago, at Froebel. Is it awful there now?

So glad we are here, feel more anxious about it all today, not just the Oxbridge part.

DH feels material science is one she should think about applying to as well, I'm less sure. I don't know what she'd do if she got the luxury of offers from Imperial and Oxford. Imperial are notoriously late at giving out offers, DD's friend had almost given up last year when her offer arrived.

RBoTP - yes, but not intended to be a provocation - temp named changed for a thread on where not to do School Direct PGCE and forgot to change back
Will immediately revert to my 'real name' .
And yes, sorry but Roehampton was dire - as a mature student postgrad they actually told me my expectations were too high (ie of professional and prepared lecturers who turned up and rooms that were not constantly double-booked etc) and that a 22 year old with no work experience would have lower expectations.
One mature student I know of was consulting a solicitor about fees refund - don't know what happened - he did say that if he got it there would be a compromise agreement so he would never be able to tell us about IT.
(At my first-degree uni, although not world-renowned - lecturers did turn up, on time, prepared and to rooms that had been pre-booked and did not scoot off early for excuses such as house moves/child care/furniture delivery...)

RatherBOTP she has nothing to lose by putting herself up for Materials too. If the Physics dept wants her it will make her an offer and if she gets an alternative offer she doesn't have to accept it - it's just an offer! It might conceivably affect college allocation though: one college takes a disproportionate number of Materials undergrads. But it's a lovely college!

Roehampton - it made me larf

God, I hope my friend's DD has a better time!

I believe DD has until Monday to decide. I'm going to text her now and remind her she needs to have the conversation with her teacher. Do you think it genuinely won't affect her physics application?

Buddha, DS was at a school which sent a high proportion to Oxbridge. I understand that the school did discourage some, probably on the basis it wasn't worth a choice on the UCAS form. However:

1. Some "surprise" candidates get in every year.
2. Some absolutely "certain" candidates won't.
3. A lot depends on subject. Engineering, computing, economics and management, etc are very very competitive and some really star candidates did not get places. People talk about Norse studies, but there appear to be some less competitive subjects.
4. There are differences between the two. Very bright mathematicians we know seemed to opt for Cambridge/Imperial/Warwick rather than Oxford, leading to a view, backed up anecdotally, that Oxford maths is slightly easier.
5. Cambridge offers can be tough. There seemed to be quite a few A A A offers last year, with no forgiveness if you missed by a couple of UMS. Roughly 50% of those holding maths offers wont achieve the required STEP marks.

In defence of Durham, there is also a college allocation as well as Department assessment. Since Durham knows that many of their candidates will be applying to Oxbridge which expects a very subject specific PS, this gives those with a particular extra curricular interest ( e.g. high standard at sport or music) to say a little bit more about that which might appeal to the College admissions officer.

My DD was applying for different courses - Human Sciences at Oxford, Biological Sciences at various others and Natural Sciences at Durham where she wanted to "major" on Biology, Geography and Psychology. The special PS would have allowed her to make her application to Durham a bit more specific for that combination of subjects. As it was, the Admissions department at Oxford at the open day made it clear that they realised the Human Sciences course was unique to them and wouldn't mark down a PS clearly written for other applications ( some for medicine even), so DD wrote her PS for the other four choices and tweaked it to it worked for Durham too.

As it happened the Human Sciences department offered applicants the chance to write a further (100? I think) words about why Human Sciences, which gave her the opportunity to write about something she'd read which was very relevant to a couple of the modules.

Exeter have emailed dd back telling her that occasionally they offer higher than their stated typical offer as they want to make sure that students achieve their potential (ie if they are predicted A*s they don't want them coasting as they have an AAA offer from Exeter). They have however suggested that those same students would very likely still be given a place even if they didn't hit the required grades. All seems too risky to me and has really put her off them.

It did occur to me that they may be hoping to mop up candidates once they have been rejected by Oxbridge and then Exeter would have to be their top choice as they are asking for such high grades.

See my post on the other thread!

Copied post here, just in case people can't find it.

I just rang Exeter admissions to ask why they have gone mad. Apparently they are giving these offers out (particularly for English and economics, but possibly for other subjects). The lady I spoke to said it is to 'encourage students to work hard and get their predictions', so they seem to be aimed at people with very high predictions. Fabulous - so your dc has worked really hard & complete plonkers come along and set the bar higher! My dd may as well cruised last year and got a lower offer.

She did say that there may be some leeway if they miss the A A A offer on results day. I explained that this was sharp practice & that they were shooting themselves in the foot, as people would respond by ditching Exeter. Have asked for it to be reported back to senior management as a matter of urgency.

Is there an organisation you can report universities to for false advertising?

Hmmmm MrsB, it doesn't seem to be "occasional" this year! It sounds very risky in arts subjects to me too, it's so easy to fall down. In maths and sciences the marking and grading is a bit more consistent.
Thanks goodness for that lovely York offer (and more to come I'm sure!)

Well done, Littleham! We need to wait and see what other offers dd gets (so not completely ruling it out yet) but I would think it unlikely she will now put them down which is a shame as she rather liked it.

I agree cathyandclaire it is definitely not occasional this year!