University admissions people - can I ask how relevant a GCSE in a MFL is when applying for uni?

[LemonMousse]

DD is choosing her GCSE options and is recommended for EBACC to include one humanity and one MFL.

She is being told that universities will require her to have a MFL GCSE. She really doesn't want to take French or German but school are adamant she must choose one. If push comes to shove it will be French as she has studied that since Year 7 and German only since Year 8.

She doesn't believe she will be capable of a decent grade in either (neither do I to be honest but I haven't said that to her) and would rather choose a different (non EBACC) subject that she feels she can achieve a higher grade in.

I realise we are 4 years away from uni but I do want her to have the best possible chance - I don't want her to jeopardise things by NOT having a MFL but at the same time if she can achieve an A or A* in another subject would that not be the better option?

Just after a bit of advice from the 'horses mouth' so to speak.

Thank you.

There is a Difference in the motivation required to pass a language at GCSE and to get to. Level where you can use it with some fluency as many people do who do not have English as a first language. It is quite hard work . They often want to speak fluently in order to have access to global culture. That is what I meant by motivation. There is less necessity for those with English as a first language.

One of the ways of teaching dyslexics letters is through kinesthetics (physical learning), making clay shapes, writing them in sand or flour, writing huge letters with a spray bottle on the playground. All sorts of ways of making letters and words more 'real' and increasing the ways the brain has to remember them.

I suspect a lot of dyslexics would like the expressive physical nature of BSL also one sign a word is way easier to remember than all those letters.

No you don't use history, RE and geography day to day, but they are all around us in the news, films, TV, books and the people we talk to.

Bar pronouncing place names, I've never found any use for a Welsh (and my parents live in Wales still) and French is even more redundant.

My ds dyslexic and struggled with mfl exams because it is memorizing passages. He did german and could spell because german is very phonetical but would apend all day trying to learn 5 sentances

My dd 16 hasnt done an mfl due to subject clashes. She wanted to do italian. However she would have loved to do BSL. She has learnt some makaton from helping at a sen playgroup but wants to take it further. She wants to be an occupational therapist.

Yes, I think that makes sense, using different methods for teaching language. I think that must be the key thing - multiple methods.

But my question was, wouldn't the same difficulties that mean a lot of dyslexics struggle with written language would apply to BSL?

Surely one word per sign makes it immensely harder to remember for dyslexics? I mean, languages that use images that stand for single words are harder for dyslexics, because they require an immense amount of visual memory.

Please excuse me if these are daft questions.

Dyslexia covers a wide variety of traits and. I have a chuld with dyslexic traits whose visual memory is very strong. She does well at learning Mandarin but finds the pinyin trickier. Her native speaker Chinese teacher doesn't believe in using pinyin which might be hard for most children but suits mine.

YY, this is what I am saying, slip. That there isn't a magic bullet for dyslexics, or a 'dyslexic mind,' so it's difficult to generalize about what might or might not work with MFL.

I'd hope if someone explained why they found MFL difficult in a personal statement, it'd be taken into account? I know some universities certainly do this.

They shouldn't need to put it in their statement - that kind if spld info would be dealt with by school. Yes it would be taken into account.

Ah, ok. I am out of date. Thanks.

"But my question was, wouldn't the same difficulties that mean a lot of dyslexics struggle with written language would apply to BSL? "

BSL is different to Makaton or signed supported English. It is a language in its own right with its own unique grammar system. BSL is not a written language so a dyslexic person would not have to worry about writing. Many Deaf people struggle to communicate on paper and BSL has evoled to make their life easier. Many people who are profoundly deaf from birth struggle with reading in English.

BSL isn't one sign per word. Many BSL signs simply don't translate into English. Sometimes entire phrases are replaced by one sign or a multi channel sign and at other times you need more than one sign for what is one word in English. The word order is completely different to English

Most communication with BSL is done with facial expressions rather than hands. A typical BSL sign would have a mouth pattern similar to the mouth pattern that a hearing English person would use to say it. Lip reading is frendishly difficult and use of the hands make communication clearer. I believe that a profoundly deaf person gets 90% of their information from looking at the face. Most people with dyslexia are fine at recongising facial expressions without being taught.

Learning BSL improves lip reading skills which are useful if the hearing person is unlucky enough to go deaf.

Yes, I know it's a language in its own right with its own grammar system.

But writing isn't necessarily the issue.

I'm sorry, I'm probably asking the wrong questions or putting this badly - it's just, the more people describe BSL, the more difficult it sounds to me, yet obviously several of you have found it is really good for dyslexics. I'm interested because my family have a strong pattern for dyslexia and if it is possibly useful, I would like to say so. I think it sounds as if it wouldn't be, but not sure.

Please excuse me if this is all too far off topic.

LRD my partner (spelling and writing problems but never diagnosed dyslexic) failed his MFL at age 16 but went on to work abroad and pick up a decent amount of the spoken language- immersion was the key. He didn't get to any decent level in writing however. There are obviously a number of different problems which result in dyslexia so there must be many variations!

Although I don't intend to defend myself against the ignorant bile written above..

I loved learning languages and chose to work abroad in a foreign language environment. I have bilingual family and friends. For all of us who now reside in the anglophone parts of the UK those language skills are redundant save for occasional holidays. The industries that I have worked in operate in English even at an international level. Nevertheless exposure to other languages has been a part of my child's experience by my design.

For my son it is now difficult, with only 6 subjects including Maths and English, to justify a school MFL that he hates and is poor at. I just hope it won't jeapordise any future university admissions. I hope when he has matured he will take the opportunity to learn a language he feels will be of use. (BoffinMum may I ask what type of teaching helped your dyslexic children?)
Another point is that there is no obvious language for him to choose, whereas English would be a safe bet for many around the world.

Every dyslexic person is different. What one person finds easy another person might find hard.

In theory finger spelling would be hard for a dyslexic person. However most of the Deaf community cannot spell to save their lives. A really high proportion of Deaf people struggle desperately with literacy, even if they are intelligent. In this repect a profoundly Deaf person is similar to a dyslexic person.

I am good at recieving finger spelling, but not the rest of BSL as I got a lot of practice at work. Since none of the Deaf kids could spell, I found it easier to look at the face and then use the few letters that I had gleaned from the child's very "unique" spelling of words to improve my accuracy of reading the lips.

This link might be of interest to you.

www.beingdyslexic.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=9604

Funnily enough my son did BSL and got along fine with it, but he was paired with a fluent user with whom he made friends straightaway. It was a social thing and there was no pressure to attain, it was a very good experience all round.

Thanks, daff - interesting you say that, because my brother who is moderately dyslexic, and struggled with languages at GCSE, has also picked up bits through needing to communicate, though not to anything like the level you mention. I'll tell him it's not a fluke (that's how he keeps describing it - his confidence is completely shot).

Confidence is the key and plugging on with the mentality that it is all about moral toughness is often the worst thing.

"Confidence is the key and plugging on with the mentality that it is all about moral toughness is often the worst thing."

Moral toughness is a horrible phase and sounds very judgemental. There a difference between a school or parents giving up on a child and the child giving up. Or prehaps even worse, denying a child the opportunity to try or telling that something is far too difficult for them.

For example our local secondary school does not allow a child who has achieved less than a level 4 in their key stage 2 SATs to study two languages in year 7. These children are made to have extra English lessons instead. The tiny number of children who have less than a level 2 are not allowed to study a foreign language at all. The view is taken that these children need extra English to get them up to speed and something has to give. I feel that eleven years old is far too young to allow a child to give up MFL forever.

Well taught MFL can improve literacy skills in the child's native language as welll as the target language. For example my son is currently learning his french verbs which enforces his English grammar.