University admissions people - can I ask how relevant a GCSE in a MFL is when applying for uni?

[LemonMousse]

DD is choosing her GCSE options and is recommended for EBACC to include one humanity and one MFL.

She is being told that universities will require her to have a MFL GCSE. She really doesn't want to take French or German but school are adamant she must choose one. If push comes to shove it will be French as she has studied that since Year 7 and German only since Year 8.

She doesn't believe she will be capable of a decent grade in either (neither do I to be honest but I haven't said that to her) and would rather choose a different (non EBACC) subject that she feels she can achieve a higher grade in.

I realise we are 4 years away from uni but I do want her to have the best possible chance - I don't want her to jeopardise things by NOT having a MFL but at the same time if she can achieve an A or A* in another subject would that not be the better option?

Just after a bit of advice from the 'horses mouth' so to speak.

Thank you.

She doesn't believe she will be capable of a decent grade She may be wrong.
The current MFL GCSE is little more than a memory test. No language skills required.
I have two DS who are most definitely not linguists but DS1 got A and DS2 is predicted A in French. Both hated it but had arms twisted by school.

Sorry I haven't been back to this thread for a while - thank you all for your contributions.

DD is 'expected' to take a MFL because she is in top set for everything. At the moment she is level 5c for French, 4b for German and achieving 7s and 8s in everything else

I am still awaiting the call from her Achievement Leader to discuss this.

Well she would be lower in an mfl at her age because she took them up only a couple of years ago. That is normal, not inadequate.

Thanks slipshod I said that to her but she seems to think otherwise!

The current MFL GCSE is little more than a memory test. No language skills required

I have seen 1000s of UCAS application forms over the last few years as an admissions tutor, and it is really common for students to have a string of good GCSEs (A*, A with a couple of Bs) and a D or E in MFL.

Clearly they could have chosen not to work as hard, but it does give a clear indication that they are not the walk in the park that this type of comment suggests.

Check her performance in comparison with her peers with her teacher. If she is generally an A standard candidate in her subjects, the school is doing its job and giving you sound advice about the desirability of a GCSE in mfl.

My dd is taking it at gcse. She finds it one of her harder gcses but is soldiering on. I can see that a language is a good thing but why do we leave it so late in this country to start learning them? We had a student stay with us last summer and his English at 15 was excellent. He'd been learning since he was very young though.

None of the degree programmes I have been involved with for admissions require MFL GCSE. All information about requirements is specified in the university prospectus and this will usually just state A Level/IB requirements. Even to study a language at university, they would only be interested in the A Level/IB level qualification. Some universities like to see English and Maths GCSE, occasionally a science, and teaching degrees would require all of those as this is linked to Qualified Teacher Status requirements.

I agree with cream teas, by the way. We circle 5 grade A or A*s and higher on the UCAS form, and have a quick look to make sure they are not in subjects like disco dancing or origami, but really the main thing of interest is A Level predictions.

BTW something like English Lang, English Lit, Maths, Double Science, History and Geography plus three other GCSEs would get you onto practically any course in the country.

BoffinMum when you say circle could you clarify what you mean is % a's like a magic charm for admissions ?

We flag up applicants who have five or more As at GCSE, and put a ring around the box on the print off. I have done admissions for three competitive entry universities, including one elite one.

Oxford and Bristol are two universities that are fairly open about placing a good deal of emphasis on GCSEs. With the demise of AS, I think it will become common.

You need to think globally. My son is hoping to take up a place abroad and they require students to matriculate: GCSE passes must include English, maths, a MFL or Latin and two other subjects from their approved list.

Word factory - Bristol place no emphasis on GCSEs for some of their degrees. They are quite open about their selection methods and list the percentage weighting of GCSE v A levels.

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply/admissions-statements/

Bristol admissions statements for all subjects link. If you click on Engineering Mathematics for example it shows the weighting is 100% A level grades.

Whereas mathematics is 85% A level, 15% GCSE.

And law is
GCSE: 20%
A-Level: 40%
Personal Statement: 15%
Additional Test: 25%

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply/admissions-statements/

TheBeautifulVisit - I agree entirely that is important to think globally ie what are the common requirements in terms of school leaving examinations (subjects and level) of universities and employers in the major economies?

It is very easy to come unstuck early by making choices that seem all right locally (nationally) but are in fact not currency outside once country of origin and, hence, are likely not even to meet local standards in future.

I know about admissions for psychology and related subjects (Russell group and other unis), and my experience is the same as Creamteas - they don't care about a MFL at GCSE.

Personally I disagree with most British people on this, I think people are only half educated if they can't speak or read another language at a basic/conversational level as a minimum, and I certainly wouldn't be happy for my dc to give up all languages at 14. But in terms of UK university admissions it's not particularly valued.

Until a few years ago, an MFL was essential in all schools to GCSE, and there is always a chance a govt (loving as they do to tinker with our dcs' educations) will revert to this, leaving those who in the period it was scrapped did not take an MFL at a disadvantage. My dd2 has always enjoyed French, and took it to A2. She is currently studying Maths at a RG uni, and is in a special scheme there that helps students with applying for internships etc. The woman in charge told dd that her language skills will be an amazing asset and set her apart (she also said these skills are sadly lacking amongst the population).

Until a few years ago, an MFL was essential in all schools to GCSE, and there is always a chance a govt (loving as they do to tinker with our dcs' educations) will revert to this, leaving those who in the period it was scrapped did not take an MFL at a disadvantage

I really can't see this would ever be the case. A GCSE in MFL gives you a basic level of communication that will get you by on a holiday. It does not sufficient level of skill for business use or any higher level communication. In addition, unless it is refreshed, it will mostly be forgotten in 2 or 3 years.

This does not mean that languages are not a really important skill, and fluency in another language is always an asset. But unless they lead onto more advanced understanding of a language, MFL GCSEs do not really help at all.

Sorry creamteas but that's not what my colleagues think.

Their belief is that knowing another language even at a basic level is fundemental to a well rounded education (this is an opinion shared in many cultures).

They also believe that if one is interested in language and communication (which is very much part of our discipline) then one would expect a student be show some interest in how that might happen in other languages.

I think you are very optimistic, creamteas. While the MFL GCSE courses and examinations may have many shortcomings that is something that is surprisingly easy to remedy (there are already excellent tried and tested CEFR-linked MFL courses developed by all major European languages and Mandarin, with requisite examinations to validate levels achieved, that could form the basis of a new curriculum) even if it would undoubtedly take a few years to get to cruising speed. As wordfactory says, knowledge of at least one MFL is widely seen as a marker of a rounded education. Why would British pupils want to be exempted from a global standard of educational achievement?

The OP asked specifically how an MFL was viewed by university admissions officers - creamteas and boffinmum answered that it wasn't a requirement. I concur with that view. That doesn't mean that language skills, however basic, are not a good thing to have, or that we need people to function within a global society but in the context of university admissions it is not necessary.

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/January2012/260112-modern-languages

The above does not relate to MFL degrees but generally. Universities have a hard job. If they are strict with their requirements they discourage applicants, which they don't want to do and anyway. If they keep quiet about things, some candidates do a mix of not especially helpful subjects and then might lose out.

Common sense in the context of your child's strengths and interests and in the context of the institution and course she aspires to should help you rather than absolutes, in the main.