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Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 30/08/2016 12:49

When we first considered home education, I pictured handwriting practice, daily reading tasks, desks and mini-projects. I used to be a teacher; I imagined some kind of co-op, where I'd teach four or five children Stuff I Knew and another parent would include our children in a similar group for Stuff They Knew.

We decided to opt out of the school system after a brief dabble with preschool for Evie, who's now five - her four-year-old sister Clara won't be starting school this September either. Society can sometimes laugh, with varying degrees of mirth, about the lack of fun and creativity in schools. But given the government push for testing and an ever-narrowing curriculum, we stopped laughing and just felt a bit sad. We decided that home educating would suit our family better.

Of course, we had early worries about doing the right thing for the kids; qualifications; making friends; the embarrassment of telling people.

Although I'd initially envisioned a kind of school at home, my children don't learn that way; in fact, few of us learn that way. It's how schools work because there are 30 children in each group with one adult, and that's hard to manage. It's what has always been done.

We're usually wet or muddy or covered in ice cream or - on good days - all three. Some days I'm Queen Elizabeth I at Hampton Court Palace (but a nicer one at Evie's instruction, because our ginger queen wasn't known for her benevolence) and the girls are my daughters (but secret, illegitimate daughters, because she didn't have any really). Other days we might go back to check on some tadpoles at the park. The girls are enthusiastic explorers and biologists. I'm a rather repetitive and slightly irritating Protector of the Tadpoles. No tadpoles have been harmed, but many have been stroked.

I always knew that these kinds of activities were legitimate ways of learning, but surely you'd also need lessons, or some form of structured teaching. I had read a bit about unschooling but I wasn't really convinced. The essence is that you live with your children and allow them to live: offer lots of opportunities and resources, and allow the children to choose how they spend their time. Be supportive and talk to them. It's the parenting that most of us did when our children were babies and toddlers. They learnt to talk and walk, and recognise individuals, they knew their colours and how to count, and how to stack things, and what would make them feel better if they got hurt. As I started to look for and find learning in ways that don't look like school, this way of educating, and living, made the most sense to me.

We're lucky these days that lots of unschooled kids have grown up and been to university; they're getting good jobs and living satisfying lives without ever having faced the stress of year 6 SATs or last minute Sunday night homework or bullying.

So we're unschoolers. We don't do it in exactly the same way as anybody else, because everyone has their own set of interests and learns in different ways. We go on all sorts of trips organised by home educating parents - to museums and nature reserves and sites of historical interest - and a whole lot of unorganised trips to parks and IKEA and the swimming pool. We read lots of books and go to the library to get more. We play with toys. We watch a lot of Netflix and YouTube and are currently in a phase of playing an abundance of Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii.

We spend time with lovely friends and travel around the country to see family. We never take tests; we're never limited by a curriculum; we don't sit if we want to run, nor do we run when we need to sit.

I don't worry about the same things any more, which luckily leaves me time to worry about the mess, or the sibling squabbles or what we'll have for tea instead. I know this is the right choice for us. If they need qualifications there are plenty of ways to get them; they have lots of friends of all ages; and I'm not at all embarrassed to tell people that we're not on holiday, actually, we home educate.

OP posts:
Propertyquandry · 31/08/2016 11:40

I think in financial terms, many children are better off with that extra 30, 40, 50k coming in from the mum working. This surely affords them a great many more opportunities for learning? Don't get me wrong, I totally see why some parents resort to it after everything else has failed and their child is having a hideous time at school but I cannot get my head around opting for it from the off. Giving up your own career in the process.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 11:43

By the way, there's a good question on here - how many home schooled/unschooled adults do we have on here?

I met a few in the US most of whom had been homeschooled using a conservative religious curriculum for elementary school then plunged straight into high school. For many this was deeply traumatising though they had a firm academic background (with weird bits) and made it to university where they heaved a sigh of relief to find people a bit more like them (i.e. liked education). But this is slightly more akin to being sent to a small religious school than to unschooling.

I also knew a family that had grown up as new age travellers/unschooling before it was trendy (they are now in their 30s). They all have creative careers but I hesitate to call them careers. They just about manage to eke out a living (living situations that would be hipster in your 20s but sharing a house when you have kids in your 30s is not everyone's idea of fun). One of them is apparently a "celebrity barista".

So now you know what they end up doing... To be fair some of them have been financially successful, some have not but that's not everything, they have all followed the same kind of career as their parents, but none of them have done anything that would need a higher education and out of a random group of teenagers (it's a large family) you would expect that some of them would want to do that.

FireSquirrel · 31/08/2016 11:43

I'm not here to convince you. You don't sound like you're seriously considering home ed, this all seems to be hypothetical. If one day your child is no longer coping in school and you're forced to pull them out, you'll find a way to make it work.

Waitingfordolly · 31/08/2016 11:44

Lots of home ed kids get jobs in their teenage years, I know people who have worked in shops, cafes and bars before going on to university. They didn't seem to have too much problem adapting.

What I think is equally valuable is teaching kids though that they don't have to just get a job in which they have to toe the line, if they want to they can start their own business in an area that they are interested in or work freelance with hours to suit themselves, and the home ed ethos fits well with this - it would be interesting to know whether more home ed kids end up self employed. I think that education is woefully lacking in schools and universities - when I was recently going through the careers service at university not one of their options about what I might want to do included starting a business.

pentomino · 31/08/2016 11:44

Free, how can we possibly tell you how you would do it!? We don't know the first thing about your situation and setup. All we can say is that we know people who do it who come from a lot of different backgrounds and they manage somehow. They live in a smaller house, they move to a cheaper area, they work part-time with help from friends or family when working, they change their job to one which is shifts. They sort something out because they feel it is that important. You don't want to HE. That's fine. We're not criticising your choice. I'm sure your children are thiriving in the school and home you have sorted for them. But don't say ours are not.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2016 11:46

people that left school with no GCSEs

Is this not a case of the blind leading the blind?

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 11:47

If I have to, as with anything else life throws at me, I would make it work. I simply don't see how it is so ideal if you don't have the money.

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 11:53

Pent, never suggested your or others aren't thriving. Of course not. I just think it is a wealthy family's choice to do it. If my daughter's school was so poor and there were no viable alternatives, I would make it work. In poverty. We are already pretty poorly off in a tough area.

00100001 · 31/08/2016 11:55

"If Bob was passionate about doing the decorating job and in order to do the job he needed to take the course then he'd take the course. Why wouldn't he?" because he's not interested in doing the working at heights course.

What part of a education system where a student can choose to ignore the things they're not interested in teaches them to do the stuff they're not interested in? I'm sure it exists, but from the thread I can't see any 'evidence'. We have lots of "if the child isn't interested, they don't learn it" and lots of "passion". But at what point do they learn that sometimes, you have do the 'boring' bits in order to achieve the goal, if they are allowed to 'give up' when they encounter something they don't like or aren't interested in?

Or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

drspouse · 31/08/2016 11:55

no subject is made boring or hard by being introduced to it too early or in a way they don't understand

One of the things that's really impressed me about changes in primary school education recently is how what was once considered advanced/secondary/University maths is now known to be simple enough - presented in the right way - for primary school children to understand.

My DM has a maths degree and set theory was brand new and Difficult when she was at Uni in the dark ages. Then we did it at secondary school and now it's a primary topic. Primary teachers were taught how to introduce this sort of topic - that some of them had not yet studied themselves - by people who'd compared different methods with a wide variety of children.

Circuits, to take another example, are now on the primary curriculum. They weren't when I was at school.

If you are not trained to teach this and you aren't a specialist - how do you know what's the right way to teach these topics? How do you know what your child is capable of? How would your child even know to ask about set theory? Given that professional mathematicians 50 years ago were only just beginning to ask about it. And yet it is massively useful.

OK I'll concede that most parents would work out that "here, let's build a circuit" was the right answer to some questions that even quite young children ask about how things work. But the theory behind some aspects of electronics? Way beyond me with several high level professional qualifications in an entirely different field of geekery. Bread and butter to secondary school physics teachers, who've also worked out tried and tested ways of teaching them to children who are both bright and struggling.

The attitude of home edders is also very patronising to teachers - especially secondary school teachers - they appear to assume that subject specialist teachers know less than they do about every subject under the sun.

shabbychic1 · 31/08/2016 11:57

Read this thread with interest. I'd be really interested to hear from more people who were home educated and their views. In another thread a poster talked about knowing a lot of HE'd adults (she lived in a high HE area) who found intergration into university and work life quite difficult. I wish I could find the post to link. I think the 2 (?) posters who are adults who were HE'd and have replied in this thread actually found it to have more negatives that positives in their adult lives. But it would be great to hear more outcomes from actual home schooled individuals so perhaps we could get a balanced view from the individual it has effected most.

gillybeanz · 31/08/2016 11:58

property.

I gave up my career when I had children as was my choice.
We have 3 dc 2 of whom are grown up and attended school throughout.
It suited them and us but I can't say either reached their potential.

When it came to dd she was different and managed until end of Y3 when she told us she was leaving as school got in the way of her short term goals, she was 8.

We looked at it, I did some research and we decided to go for it, nothing to lose attitude. It worked well for her and she reached her goal in 3 short years when we all anticipated it would take her until the end of year 8.

We have raised our children to be happy in the work they choose rather than working at something they don't like, in order to make a living.
I'm not allowed to say thinking out of the box or unconventional as for some reason it upsets people Grin

Houseconfusion · 31/08/2016 11:59

So, for example - for us to home educate we would do some or all of the following -

  1. Give up either mine or DH's 45k, satisfying, enriching jobs
  1. If it were to be me, give up my career that enriches me that I've worked for a decade training for
  1. Sell our Lovely house with playroom conservatory home library and large garden in a lovely area with outstanding schools to move to a cheaper area with smaller house
  1. Remove the budget for music lessons, swimming lessons and sports
  1. Remove one of the two cars as one of us would stop working as going part time not an option
  1. Remove our yearly holidays nationally and abroad including trips halfway across the world to see my parents and family
  1. Remove a fair few of the non school, informal, peer based, experience based learning activities and opportunities that we currently spend on
  • to home educate.
FireSquirrel · 31/08/2016 12:01

I know lots of adults who were home educated and are in creative careers, but I also know plenty who work in the more academic fields including medicine, law and veterinary science. Almost all of them went on to higher education. I only know one who is NEET (not in education employment or training) but this is a lad who had severe learning difficulties and for whom the outcome would almost certainly be the same even if he'd gone to school.

I'm sure there are people who didn't enjoy their home ed experience, in fact there's a ppster in the home ed section here on MN who felt home ed ruined their childhood, but there are just as many people who feel school ruined theirs. Plenty of people leave school with poor or no qualifications, or low self esteem, or both. Plenty of people who went to school are barely literate or numerate, plenty are in low paid jobs, plenty struggle in social situations. Home ed doesn't suit everyone but school certainly doesn't either.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 12:06

Fire did your home ed academic adults stay in home ed through to 18? Or are we talking partially home ed? And were they following a curriculum while they were at home?

Because the way a lot of posters are talking it sounds like unschooling can get you 5 A* at A level.

Apart from the whole thing of missing out on things you'd never even dream you'd find interesting till you try them, and mixing with a much wider variety of people than the self-selecting home ed community, that's the part I struggle with.

You can home ed with a curriculum and tutors and going to school in later years and get to an academic career. Or with unschooling to start with and (if your parents are academic enough themselves) be ready to start formal education when you are a bit older.

But I don't believe you can do unschooling with parents who have no GCSEs and no outside input (or parents who cannot be bothered/do not have the personal abilities to practice some skills) and no formal education and not be removing the option for an academic/professional career.

Houseconfusion · 31/08/2016 12:09

And for my life I cannot think of entrusting my children's education in subjects like mathematics or the biological or physical sciences or their inspiration to a self selected community of tutors or parents (a fab teacher passionate and skilled and highly educated can motivate students enormously).

My own teachers some of whom in on touch with today inspired and motivated me enormously through two schools in Calcutta India, college in New Delhi masters and PhD in London and frankly I wouldn't be here and doing well weren't it for some fab teachers right from kindergarten till PhD.

Waitingfordolly · 31/08/2016 12:11

Not sure why people are giving a list of why they couldn't home educate even though they don't want to in the first place. No one is saying you should!

It wasn't my first choice but I was put in a position where it was the least worst option and I'm making it work even though I'm a single parent on an average income. To be fair I do have the advantage of being self employed and having spent a lot of my income in the past on my own education which has put me in a position to be able to be self employed and to know a lot of stuff (I came from a working class background in which still none of my extended family have been to university) but I wouldn't say I was privileged - no one else is supporting me.

FireSquirrel · 31/08/2016 12:25

Yes, I know people who were unschooled, who's learning was entirely self directed (so no enforced curriculum) who had no formal tutoring unless of their own choosing and who went on to university either by doing traditional qualifications or on the strength of their portfolio. Some were unschooled from the beginning, others were pulled out of school at various ages, usually primary school. It isn't that unusual. Lots of colleges and universities accept non traditional applications from home edders and some positively welcome them! If you are genuinely considering home education you can join one of the many home ed or unschooling facebook groups and read about what some unschooled children have achieved and the various routes they took to do so. You may also be interested in some of the studies done by Paula Rothermel, Alan Thomas or Peter Gray on outcomes for home educated children.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 12:25

Not sure why people are giving a list of why they couldn't home educate even though they don't want to in the first place. No one is saying you should!

A fair few posters on here are adamant that home ed is superior. It's all very well saying it's superior but if it could never work for your family for practical reasons that's basically saying "well your children are doomed and it's all your fault".

We could probably home ed if we wanted to. I don't because I can see lots of flaws with the whole idea of home ed.

In extremis for a short period I could probably manage it e.g. between schools but it would be more of an extended holiday. Mind you, as most of the excellent educational things that home edders do are the same as "inside the box" parents do on their actual holidays... it wouldn't be much different!

Apart from not going to home ed groups due to fear of finding lots of judgmental people. I know lots of really nice home edders so I'd probably try and see them independently.

Though maybe the "your children are doomed" brigade keep their opinions to themselves in public.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 31/08/2016 12:28

Self-employment, by the way, is not some self-directed paradise. You have to do all of it - from the marketing, to the accounts, to the cold calling, to the actually buckling down to do the work instead of fannying around on MN as I am right now I had much more 'freedom' and 'self-direction' when I was employed.

pentomino · 31/08/2016 12:31

00100001 we don't make our children learn things because we think they should, or its good for them no, you are quite right. But what you've missed I think is that it doesn't mean children don't persist with something when it gets tough or boring or frustrating. If they choose to pursue something just like an adult because they really want to know more or they really want to achieve an end goal like running a marathon or getting a GCSE or becoming fluent in a foreign language they don't give up because the goal is still important to them. I'm amazed at just a young age how my children will keep going and succeed completely of their own choice because they really want to master something, but thats a totally different experience to having to plough on because they would get into trouble if they didn't do it.

So once grown up and in the workplace hopefully having found a career they want to pursue, they will work towards the skills/qualifications/get the experience they need to pursue it. And if there are parts of their job they dislike, like getting up early they will put up what that because they know they have chosen that path and they are being paid for the work. But we are not preparing our children for a life of doing a job they hate with no choice about just because, that is not our hope for our kids. Does that help?

FireSquirrel · 31/08/2016 12:32

Their families were supportive though, although not necessarily academic. As I said in a PP, the parent's role in unschooling is far from passive and unschooling parents work hard to support and facilitate learning. I don't know anyone who home educates their children and isn't dedicated to their child's academic and emotional wellbeing. Home ed is hardly the easy option. Surely if parents were lazy or couldn't be bothered they would be far more likely to put their children in school than to home ed? (before anyone jumps on me I'm not saying people who's children go to school are lazy, but simply that home ed is not a convenient option; at the very least it requires being with your children every day, it seems unlikely that a lazy parent would choose that when school offers free childcare).

AngelBlue12 · 31/08/2016 12:36

I did a pp about being a 'second generation HE' up thread for the poster that was asking.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 12:39

the parent's role in unschooling is far from passive and unschooling parents work hard to support and facilitate learning

And if the parents don't have the personality for this?

Because this is my experience of a family unschooling. Passive parent and no work to support or facilitate learning. But a huge chip on parent's shoulder about how awful school is. You have to have a fairly strong assumption that a set curriculum is bad (at the very least) to want to do unschooling. You do have to have some basic philosophical assumptions about curriculum, and almost certainly about child development.

Lots of parents are very lazy and some of those parents think school is bad for children. Why do you assume that all home ed parents are great and dedicated - not all parents are like this, so why would all home ed parents be like this. In particular, if parents think that "being formal" is bad, then wouldn't they be more likely
a) not to want to send your child to a formal school
b) to want to unschool them and
c) not to want to organise anything formal or planned (in any way including planning something for them to follow up on what they have suddenly become interested in or persisting in explaining/practicing something difficult) for them to learn from?

If you genuinely believe that structure is bad for children, you are not going to structure anything for them to learn from, are you? Even if it's something they've brought up as something they are interested in learning?

And likewise if you believe that formal education is wrong at any level, you are not going to encourage or facilitate your child going back into education if they want to follow a more academic career than unschooling allows. Hence limiting your child's choices.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 12:43

Angel I saw your post. Assuming you do mean FE not HE:

If you had wanted to go into an academic/professional career or even HE for the love of education at 18, you wouldn't have been able to. Your choices were limited there.
Your DH was lucky to get into IT when he did - it's harder now without formal qualifications (though not impossible but why make things harder?)