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Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 30/08/2016 12:49

When we first considered home education, I pictured handwriting practice, daily reading tasks, desks and mini-projects. I used to be a teacher; I imagined some kind of co-op, where I'd teach four or five children Stuff I Knew and another parent would include our children in a similar group for Stuff They Knew.

We decided to opt out of the school system after a brief dabble with preschool for Evie, who's now five - her four-year-old sister Clara won't be starting school this September either. Society can sometimes laugh, with varying degrees of mirth, about the lack of fun and creativity in schools. But given the government push for testing and an ever-narrowing curriculum, we stopped laughing and just felt a bit sad. We decided that home educating would suit our family better.

Of course, we had early worries about doing the right thing for the kids; qualifications; making friends; the embarrassment of telling people.

Although I'd initially envisioned a kind of school at home, my children don't learn that way; in fact, few of us learn that way. It's how schools work because there are 30 children in each group with one adult, and that's hard to manage. It's what has always been done.

We're usually wet or muddy or covered in ice cream or - on good days - all three. Some days I'm Queen Elizabeth I at Hampton Court Palace (but a nicer one at Evie's instruction, because our ginger queen wasn't known for her benevolence) and the girls are my daughters (but secret, illegitimate daughters, because she didn't have any really). Other days we might go back to check on some tadpoles at the park. The girls are enthusiastic explorers and biologists. I'm a rather repetitive and slightly irritating Protector of the Tadpoles. No tadpoles have been harmed, but many have been stroked.

I always knew that these kinds of activities were legitimate ways of learning, but surely you'd also need lessons, or some form of structured teaching. I had read a bit about unschooling but I wasn't really convinced. The essence is that you live with your children and allow them to live: offer lots of opportunities and resources, and allow the children to choose how they spend their time. Be supportive and talk to them. It's the parenting that most of us did when our children were babies and toddlers. They learnt to talk and walk, and recognise individuals, they knew their colours and how to count, and how to stack things, and what would make them feel better if they got hurt. As I started to look for and find learning in ways that don't look like school, this way of educating, and living, made the most sense to me.

We're lucky these days that lots of unschooled kids have grown up and been to university; they're getting good jobs and living satisfying lives without ever having faced the stress of year 6 SATs or last minute Sunday night homework or bullying.

So we're unschoolers. We don't do it in exactly the same way as anybody else, because everyone has their own set of interests and learns in different ways. We go on all sorts of trips organised by home educating parents - to museums and nature reserves and sites of historical interest - and a whole lot of unorganised trips to parks and IKEA and the swimming pool. We read lots of books and go to the library to get more. We play with toys. We watch a lot of Netflix and YouTube and are currently in a phase of playing an abundance of Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii.

We spend time with lovely friends and travel around the country to see family. We never take tests; we're never limited by a curriculum; we don't sit if we want to run, nor do we run when we need to sit.

I don't worry about the same things any more, which luckily leaves me time to worry about the mess, or the sibling squabbles or what we'll have for tea instead. I know this is the right choice for us. If they need qualifications there are plenty of ways to get them; they have lots of friends of all ages; and I'm not at all embarrassed to tell people that we're not on holiday, actually, we home educate.

OP posts:
OrionsAccessory · 31/08/2016 09:36

No one is asking you to find a way to home ed though Free. It doesn't sound like you'd want to home educate even if you could afford it!

EB123 · 31/08/2016 09:36

DrSpouse if an adequate education is not being provided the local authority are able to get involved.

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 09:39

Couldn't be more wrong Orion's. I was taught to question big ideas that are set out for me. Just doing that. Nice of you to judge, though.

Propertyquandry · 31/08/2016 09:48

Can I ask, are the majority of home ed children, girls? I haven't done it myself but once attended a get together when I was a student teacher. I'd say that group was about 90% girls and I wondered how typical that was. Or girls and 'sensitive' boys? I have one sensitive boy who I'm sure would have loved it. But what about the loud, very physical, rugby obsessed boys? I have one of those too. He excels at noise, carnage, 4x a week sport. He hates being on his own or his environment being quiet. How does home ed cater for those overtly physical, overtly social boys (and girls I guess)?
I understand that some parents turn to home ed when school doesn't work but I mean those parents who decide beforehand that it's for them.

It seems to be something opted for by parents of happy, sociable, enquisitive little girls or boys who love the idea of visiting a museum and exploring the gardens. My ds2 who is actually very academically able as well as rugby crazy, would just want to climb up everything, run around mad and kick a ball. Also most parents seem to have 1 or 2 children max.
I'm not being goady, just interested in these points and whether my small snapshot is indicative.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 09:48

But you can spend all day on home schooling EB. Lots of people are saying it only takes a couple of hours a day and you can then work/send the children to a CM/run your own business.

Even if children are around the house self-educating only a small minority will remain motivated enough to spend all that time pursuing a topic where they don't really understand the background because they are children, while their parents are getting on with, say, running their own business.

Children at school all have a full time adult who is dedicated to preparing things for them to do, motivating them (including to choose what they are interested in that day - yes it does happen at school), and following their progress to check that they aren't ignoring areas they need to practice because they find them a bit challenging (one of the big implications from unschooling being that children choose what to learn - meaning they can choose what not to learn - I do get that a lot of people here are describing home schooling with a curriculum which is rather different).

Learning about stars is not a specific need that cannot be satisfied by learning about anything else and must be achieved at that moment. Children learning about stars will obviously (as many others have said) be learning English, Maths, science, various practical skills, craft etc. All of those are done at school and in earlier years (like your daughter) are child-led.
The actual facts that a child of 5 can understand about stars can easily be learned in a short after school session, or a planned "when it's a clear night we'll go star gazing" evening later in the week after school. After all, just as you cannot immediately go on the internet (I assume) to learn all about stars if you're setting off for school, you also can't go star gazing at that precise second if it's 9 am, nor if it's 7pm and dark if it's cloudy. The world does not revolve around a child's wish to learn something at that second, unfortunately.

And there's nothing wrong with chatting about a piece or two of information and quickly planning a more in depth research session later that night and a star gazing expedition for an evening later in the week when it's fine. I don't think a keen child will go off the boil about stars, and if a child is a bit fickle in their interests it's probably good for them to go away and come back to them.

Likewise if your child wants to learn about castles but the nearest one is 10 miles away and the car is booked in for a service, you can't go there immediately that second, you may have to take the children to learn about how to wait quietly in the garage...

lovelilies · 31/08/2016 09:49

Here's my unschooled DD reading Black Beauty (self taught), she's going riding soon with her HE friends hence the jods Grin

Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"
Propertyquandry · 31/08/2016 09:51

So if their topic of interest was running around crazy and playing rugby all day, how does that work? I mean Im not sure how I'd manage to ensure he received a broad education if I just allowed him to follow his interests. I'm interested to know how it all works.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 09:53

So if their topic of interest was running around crazy and playing rugby all day, how does that work?

The above poster seems to be saying that, just like if it was "watching TV all day", the LEA could intervene.

I went to school and also went riding and also read Black Beauty...

lovelilies · 31/08/2016 09:56

Drspouse
Life isn't categorised into 'subjects'.
It's actually quite an artificial way to do things, everything is interchangeable.
So, to be honest, if my DC aren't interested in one particular thing, they don't learn it.
IME unschooled kids are sensible enough to know when they get older if they want to do x,y or z they may need certain qualifications and then they go and do it!

drspouse · 31/08/2016 10:02

IME unschooled kids are sensible enough to know when they get older if they want to do x,y or z they may need certain qualifications and then they go and do it!

And my experience is they are not. Let's call them skills since you don't like the word "subject".

If they don't like a skill they refuse to do it and/or have battles over doing it.

If a parent doesn't know enough about the skill and isn't willing to find out then they don't do it.

If it's a skill that they need for another skill or piece of knowledge then that skill or piece of knowledge suffers. You can't do engineering without Maths and you can't do much (at least, you can't do much on your own - obviously you can learn a lot if you have support for the reading part) if you can't read.

And when you say "go and do it" what you mean is... go and be educated in a formal setting elsewhere, don't you? Or pay for a tutor to come and formally educate you in your home? So going to a school that offers a full range of academic subjects that a child can choose from or could be in a college that is really catering to those doing resits/vocational subjects. If the child wants to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer or scientist then they are going to struggle with 5 lower level GCSEs, which they will get at the latter.

Propertyquandry · 31/08/2016 10:06

Lovelillies, I'm guessing you too have daughters? Daughters who naturally show an interest in the wonders of the world? I have one of those too (4DC) But I'm asking about young, sport obsessed boys. Very bright boys in ds2's case. But nevertheless, a boy who would rather scale the outside of the museum than visit anything inside it. Never ever sits still at home. Just wants to eat and run and run and run and climb then run again then eat again...

pentomino · 31/08/2016 10:06

This socialisation argument keeps coming up again and again. It's not that our kids are home most of the time and go to meetups and groups once in a while we are actually out most of the time with other families and when we are home its when we choose to be. When our kids meet up they play for hours and hours or all day.

There are literally hundreds of HE families in our area and we're not unusual and between us can arrange so many activities you wouldn't believe so they are not limited to what the child can think of we go to stuff to try it out and follow it further if we like it.

Because we see the same families at lots of different things they make strong friendships. What is nice is that my kids regularly socialise with lost of different adults and kids ranging from babies through to teenagers, as well as their own age. We mix in large groups and have one on one playdates. They have friends with similar interests and are inspired by ones that have different interests. They also have schooled friends that are neighbours or from clubs we go to.

They have the choice to go off with their friends in parks and woods or playdates at a friends house or go camping with Guides for time away from watching parents eyes. It is a very varied and rich life they live.

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 10:09

What do you do if your child develops a passion for astrology or flat earth stuff or "woo" nonsense in general. Unless you're guiding them to understand the socio-political context in which people fall for such rubbish it is a wasted day/week/month/year of learning.

OrionsAccessory · 31/08/2016 10:09

I'm not judging you free and I'm not saying you shouldn't question big ideas Free. I was going by what you've written which seems to suggest that your daughter is doing well in school and you're happy with the education she's receiving both in and out of school. I suppose I don't understand why you keep on saying that you couldn't afford to home ed. Lots of people have already said that they get that and understand that home ed isn't for everyone.

pentomino · 31/08/2016 10:12

The money argument is also getting tired. True I am one of the privileged few who can stay at home with the kids while my partner works, we are happy with it that way it works for us. I still dabble in bits of design work but am not pressured to make extra money. We are lucky. But I know lots of single parents who HE it is a struggle they have less but they do make it work. Some use grandparents to look after the kids sometimes, some get help from other HE families, I know one family who's kids are often seen arriving at HE groups with another family partly bec their mum is at work and partly bec she doesn't drive to get there. Its not a choice for everyone and even the well off families make sacrifices, change things in their life to make it work when they make this choice. But if you're reading this thread thinking gosh my kid would do so much better HE but I don't know how I could afford it, think harder. Meet some local families, find out how they manage. See if there are any changes you could make. It could be more possible than you realise.

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 10:15

I am not happy with the education my dd receives but, with our support, she can flourish. If I stopped work now to educate her we would lose our little house (we live within our means), we would lose the car which my dh needs to get to his job; we would be unable to pay our bills. The trauma and distress this would cause for our family is not a learning experience I want to choose for dd or any of us.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 10:15

pentomino that is very nice for those that live in an area with a lot of home ed families, but not all families do.
Also, your children are socialising with children of parents like you - where you have chosen the parents to meet up with.

I hope my children will socialise with a huge variety of other children at school - including those who are struggling financially or personally, those who are new to the UK and who have a vastly different home culture to us, and those who would never be able to home educate in a million years.

I actually do believe that home ed children can socialise - this isn't a big objection of mine to home ed in principle - but it's a more limited circle, or no circle at all for some families that are isolated from other home ed families, or isolated in general.

I also believe that there is benefit to socialising with peers - specifically with peers, not with older children, younger children, or adults. Peers are very good at naturally grading their play and activities to each other's capabilities. My DS plays well with his older cousins, for example, but I think playing with his peers stretches him in a different way as he has to negotiate and compromise more and they are often just ahead of him on skills that he then wants to achieve (and is able to achieve because they are not so far ahead he has no chance).

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 10:18

Pen - the money question is only tired if you have plenty of it.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 10:21

I know lots of single parents who HE
Are they single parents who work more or less full time in a minimum wage job? Did they leave school with less than 5 GCSEs?
Because if not, then among single parents, they are relatively privileged.
(Actually, among parents, they are also relatively privileged. You are going to struggle to find home ed parents that are not privileged financially, educationally, occupationally - flexible job, one you can do from home etc. - or all of those).

pentomino · 31/08/2016 10:22

Propertyquandry, your question is another that has come up a lot on this thread. Quickly summarised as "if my kid was HE they'd do nothing but...." fill in the blank.

It is extremely hard to get your head around (that's not patronising, it really is) how when you've watched a child grow and behave a certain way for all their life, that they might actually behave differently given a different setup and choices.

When a kid first comes out of school to HE, if given full choice they probably will do "nothing but ...." for a while. But it gets old. They get bored, they get to the point where they've had enough. And if someone is putting forth lots of other interesting options of things to do they quickly discover loads of things they are interested in. There is a school called Summerhill where students do not need to attend lessons if they don't want to. They say the typical recovery period where a child will refuse all lessons is 3 months after which the lessons become more an interesting and appealing choice once again and then because its a choice the kid soaks up the learning.

Because our kids are in the world, out and about, doing stuff. We encounter just about everything. Questions arise on all sorts of topics daily. Mine are still young but ask me about everything from evolution, to the big bang, to stop motion techniques, to building a robot for robot wars, to counting out change in a shop, to how many weeks pocket money till I can buy x, to why do we have advertising, why does wet sand make better sand castles, when you dream how do you know you're dreaming? And more and more.

FireSquirrel · 31/08/2016 10:25

Plenty of people on this thread have repeatedly said they don't have plenty of money. We live on a ridiculously low income, well below the national average, in fact well below the poverty line. Another poster is a self employed single parent. To suggest home education is only an option for the privileged or to compare it to fee paying private schools is nonsense.

freetrampolineforall · 31/08/2016 10:27

* Pen, your dc "ask me about everything from evolution, to the big bang, to stop motion techniques, to building a robot for robot wars, to counting out change in a shop, to how many weeks pocket money till I can buy x, to why do we have advertising, why does wet sand make better sand castles, when you dream how do you know you're dreaming?"*

Are you able to answer them/can you point them to a reliable source for answers ? Do you check that they have understood?

By the way, a schooled child will also ask these questions. Mine does.

drspouse · 31/08/2016 10:27

pentomino except that I DO know a child who is unschooled (for far longer than 3 months) and who DOES prefer to do nothing (except watch TV), though it is hard to see whether this is because nothing is provided and the child does not push for it, or because the child has no motivation to do much so the parent does not encourage them by providing much.

I do not believe that every child if home schooled would choose a balanced education. Just as every child if allowed to eat exactly what they wanted would not choose a balanced diet.

Propertyquandry · 31/08/2016 10:29

Pent, my kids are in independent school so have 9wks off on the summer. Ds2 really would spend it all playing team sports.

OrionsAccessory · 31/08/2016 10:30

My kids socialise with other home ed kids who often come from families with a similar educational philosophy as ours (although as a group we cover a wide range of backgrounds). This is great for them in terms of normalising home ed (when your child is approaching school age and being asked by everyone they meet if they're looking forward to big school etc, it's very helpful for them to know other kids that aren't going to school either) and also great in terms of having people they can play with during school hours.

My children also play with the kids on our street. We live in a very deprived area and these children have VERY different lives to mine. But they play together brilliantly (other than two kids that mine don't play with after one of them punched my 7 yo and tried to strangle her friend and the other chucked rocks at them)

My children go to Brownies and football and drama class with children from all walks of life, they make friends with them, they invite them to their birthday parties, they go to their houses to play.

My children also made friends with a woman in her 60s who we met while out for a walk, we go to visit her and her dogs. Everyone has a lovely time.

My children also have very strong relationships with each other, that's important to me too.

I'm not saying that school children can't have friendships like this too before anyone jumps on me! I'm just describing what friendships look like for my unschooled children.