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Guest post: "Detention is no place for pregnant women"

306 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 07/03/2016 17:40

Lucy* was 23 when she fell pregnant as a result of brutal sexual violence. Her mother bought her a plane ticket to the UK, thinking she and her baby would be safe here - but she was detained straight from the airport. She arrived frightened, alone and pregnant, and was locked up.

Lucy spent four weeks in Yarl's Wood between months five and six of her pregnancy. She told me that she couldn't believe places like this existed in the UK.

Her pregnancy had been painful, Lucy said. At one point, things got so bad that her solicitor had to intervene to ensure she was taken to the nearby hospital for medical attention. The staff at Yarl's Wood were dismissive of her complaints; there's a prevalent culture of disbelief, and women are often accused of pretending to be ill to strengthen their asylum case. Concerns have repeatedly been raised about the quality of the healthcare provision at Yarl's Wood, and Lucy had no idea what was going to happen to her or her baby.

About a month after she was detained, Lucy was released. She had nowhere to go, and had to rely on the kindness of strangers until her baby boy was born. Her son is now three months old and they are living in the community, but their asylum status is still in limbo.

About a month after I first met Lucy, I also met Priya* in Yarl's Wood, where she'd been for about six weeks. She was 25, and around five months pregnant; her story is also told in .

I visit Yarl's Wood about once a month, and always take small gifts for the women I'm visiting – usually nice smellies, body lotions and shampoos. When I asked Priya what she wanted me to bring, she asked for a photo of a baby girl to look at, and I felt so saddened by the simplicity of her request. During her time in Yarl's Wood, she'd been taken to Bedford hospital for her 20 week scan, so she knew she was having a girl and desperately wanted to imagine what she might be like.

Priya had been taken late for her appointment, escorted by Yarl's Wood officers, and hadn't had time to speak to the midwife afterwards. She was clearly frustrated, anxious, and uncertain about what to expect. "I used to worry about myself, but now I only worry about what will happen to my daughter," she told me.

She also felt very alone. She has no family, either in the UK or her home country, and her partner, like her, is an asylum seeker. Although they spoke on the phone every day, he lived in asylum support accommodation at the other end of the country, and couldn't afford to visit. At the time, I was the only 'social' visitor she'd had. I couldn't believe how tiny and fragile she looked when we first met, but she told me she felt weak and sick all the time.

She struggled to eat the food that was provided, and had been unable to access proper support for her depression, low blood pressure, and problems sleeping. The experience of detention is immensely distressing, and over half the women we surveyed in detention said they thought about killing themselves. For Priya, pregnancy and the separation from her partner also made her more emotionally vulnerable, but staff were again dismissive and unkind when she sought help for her mental health problems.

Lucy and Priya's stories are heartbreaking, but sadly they are not alone in their experiences. Over the course of 2014, 99 pregnant women were detained in Yarl's Wood – despite the Home Office's own policy that pregnant women should only be detained under 'exceptional circumstances'.

At Women for Refugee Women we know, from the stories of women like Lucy and Priya, that detention is no place for pregnant women. And it's not just our opinion – two recent independent reviews, by HM Prisons Inspectorate and Stephen Shaw, as well as medical and legal experts, have expressed similar concerns about pregnant women being detained. Join our Set Her Free campaign to ensure all women who seek asylum in the UK are treated with dignity and respect - sign the petition here.

*Names have been changed

OP posts:
SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 15:32

Excellent post of 15:14 Blanche - says it much better than I ever could.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:33

Are you trying to say that people who find outright racism and bigotry, including calling for the UK government to disregard human rights laws when dealing with asylum seekers, offensive should toddle off to Netmums because they obviously can't handle debate? Confused

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 08/03/2016 15:34

For example, if I was pregnant and had severe pains and my doctor refused an appointment, I would have grounds to report or complain. Should women in detention centres not have those rights? Do you believe that different laws should be applied to refugees and asylum seekers?

No they shouldn't.

But your talking about a health system that is failing pregnant women in many areas.

A woman in labour may be turned away from her local hospital because its full. What then? She and the baby are at massive risk, its the worst case scenario. Um yes, afterwards, when she has lost her baby or had to travel miles to get to another hospital she can complain about it - but too late then.

I go to hospital with reduced fetal movement I get put on a bed and have to wait HOURS for a simple hook up to trace heart beat, but that isn't any good, more hours wait for a crappy scan because only one doctor is on, and is run ragged.

I can complain but what can they do? The doctor is dealing with emergencies?

I know women who have been left in appalling states, one was told she was not in labour and was left to give birth alone etc etc etc. Not asylum seekers, just normal mums.

Your talking about a broken creaking system, not a top notch amazing health service which is just brilliant for Uk resident Mums, but vastly worse for people in the story.

Your talking over all about a creaking, broken in some places maternity system.

Some of the posts on this thread were verging on hate speech. That's not debate, it's despicable

Yes, I have to say, a certain poster seems to bring out interesting responses, I have not seen in my roughly 4 years on MN.

kirinm · 08/03/2016 15:34

I think a lot of what is posted on this and similar threads IS hate speech.

And yes, some posters do really come across as lacking any human empathy. The belittling of rape in this thread is really quite something.

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 15:35

I don't think it is OTT at all to call it hate speech. The surprise some seem to express at that term just shows how mainstream and acceptable some previously fairly hardline right wing tropes have become.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:38

The NHS is another issue, and the failings there are due to chronic starvation of funds by the current government. If it were properly funded, we would be capable of delivering a good standard of health care for all.

The principle that all human beings deserve decent treatment and to have their human rights respected should stand regardless. Indefinite detention is a gross abuse of human rights, as is the way detainees are treated in places like Yarls Wood.

Kummerspeck · 08/03/2016 15:40

I confess I am bewildered by this stance of trying to get opposing arguments deleted and shutting down others with allegations of racism, bigotry and xenophobia. I would always advocate free speech and open discussion no matter how uncomfortable it might be.
Over the years I have found Mumsnet to be a great place to hear a range of opposing views, often with good supporting information, to allow me to learn more. I would be very sad if that stopped

For what it is worth, I have seen posts recently that I am surprised were allowed to stand, indeed I reported one myself which was not deleted (on another thread) but it does not seem to be particularly biased one way or another.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 15:42

Not at all Emily. It's perfectly possible to express surprise at something simply because you disagree with the claim that's being made.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:42

Hate speech is illegal. MN would be remiss if they allowed it to stand.

Shutthatdoor · 08/03/2016 15:43

Over the years I have found Mumsnet to be a great place to hear a range of opposing views, often with good supporting information, to allow me to learn more. I would be very sad if that stopped

So would I

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 08/03/2016 15:45

I think you need to be careful where you call hate speech, its always better to simply report to MNHQ, its their job to moderate.

When you keep blanket calling hate speech, it looses its meaning, and means nothing, same with using the word racist all the time...etc etc.

If one poster keeps going on it starts to fall on deaf ears too.

which is a shame because when someone does say something upsetting it sort of gets lost.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 15:45

I confess I am bewildered by this stance of trying to get opposing arguments deleted and shutting down others with allegations of racism, bigotry and xenophobia. I would always advocate free speech and open discussion no matter how uncomfortable it might be

Completely agree. If something breaks talk guidelines then I'm all for the post being deleted - but lets not cry wolf.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:45

There are posters on this thread arguing that people who aren't from the UK (people who aren't like 'us') shouldn't be entitled to human rights, shouldn't be treated humanely and in accordance with international law.

What is that if not hate speech?

There are countries whose governments agree with this approach. But they don't tend to be particularly nice places to live.

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 08/03/2016 15:45

I agree shut - however as I said - Netmums has a rep for being kinder? More gentle? Less robust?

OurBlanche · 08/03/2016 15:46

Single out anything here that is hate speech then.

All I have seen is one poster reading more into the words of another than were necessarily there. Having an unpleasant perspective is not hate speech.

To persist in misrepresenting unpleasant posts as hate speech is itself reprehensible, for so many reasons.

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 15:47

I think you're right about the health service, amouse. I suppose what really worries me is that some of these women wouldn't get near the NHS when they need it because they are not taken seriously by those in the centre.

I think the way women are treated, ignored and spoken to in hospital by some staff can be in an almost infantilising way and very traumatic and disrespectful. But at times women in the detention centres are even denied medical care and that is another level of mistreatment.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:50

They've been deleted now - have a look back. I'm not going to repeat them but MN don't delete posts just because someone has a different opinion.

DontCareHowIWantItNow · 08/03/2016 15:50

To persist in misrepresenting unpleasant posts as hate speech is itself reprehensible, for so many reasons.

Agreed.

Indigofactory · 08/03/2016 15:52

Sad/callous a I know this makes me sound - can we stop focussing on individuals and start looking more at the milieu in which such stories begin? Then, maybe, we can find a way to really make a difference

That's the point I wanted to make earlier.

I worry that such personal emotive stories are almost too much; they can potentially polarise a debate before it starts - you must feel guilt or compassion or you must ask if that persona is a bona fide refugee.

I'd rather do neither.

I would like some links to show me where we can start to lobby at governmental and EU level for a sensible way to stop this terrible flow of humanity away from countries they know and love and towards places where they risk such terrible dislocation.

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 15:54

Robust debate isn't stating that women that have been raped should be treated without compassion or offered help is it?

Kummerspeck · 08/03/2016 15:54

Woman I think you have to allow for the fact that we all see things from different viewpoints which filters it differently. You say posters have said "people who aren't from the UK (people who aren't like 'us') shouldn't be entitled to human rights, shouldn't be treated humanely and in accordance with international law" where I have seen people not wanting to be unkind but concerned that pregnancy should not be seen as an automatic right to enter the country, get free healthcare, etc at a time when there is so little funding and so much demand.

We are very lucky in this country to have the standard of living and healthcare that we have but, while helping others, we have to remain mindful that our resources are not endless. Of course I want to be humane and help those in need but I do not want to do that in such a way that the future is jeopardised for my own children

Indigofactory · 08/03/2016 15:57

This is why I have resisted posting about helping refugees for so long. Any debate that tries to go wider or ask difficult questions is in danger of being shut down with nit-picking and outrageous claims of offence on behalf of people who are never likely to be part of the debate.

Let's remind ourselves of the UK definition of hate speech:

Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden.Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden

I think the mods will let us know if we contravene it?

In the meantime, it derails an important debate and stops the flow of discussion as well as being very off-putting for new posters who are afraid more of their MN peers harshly judging their thoughts than is fair in a liberal democracy.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:59

I have never argued that pregnancy should give an automatic right to enter the cointro.

I have however explained that our current policies, which include indefinite detention, and our treatment of asylum seekers while they are detained, is contrary to comventions on human rights.

It is entirely possible to turn away some asylum seekers, pregnant or not, while still acting in accordance with human rights standards and treating them humanely.

But that's not what some posters were arguing for. They were clearly stating that human rights should be disregarded for asylum seekers. And I believe that is wrong - we are all human and we are all equally deserving of humane treatment.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:59

^ country, not cointro

OurBlanche · 08/03/2016 16:00

And, in my opinion, that is why MN deletes some posts. Not because they are hate speech but because they are unpleasant when read within threads such as this.

It does stifle wider debate and, given previous reference to infantilising women, does seem to infer that we, "delicate flowers" need to be protected from such unpleasantness. Personally I would rather be able to discuss, debate any and all left wing, right wing, fluffy bunny and uber harridan* perspectives without fear or loathing.

*Fully intended to carry the stereotypes you may read into them, for the sake of a short post