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Guest posts

Guest post: "Detention is no place for pregnant women"

306 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 07/03/2016 17:40

Lucy* was 23 when she fell pregnant as a result of brutal sexual violence. Her mother bought her a plane ticket to the UK, thinking she and her baby would be safe here - but she was detained straight from the airport. She arrived frightened, alone and pregnant, and was locked up.

Lucy spent four weeks in Yarl's Wood between months five and six of her pregnancy. She told me that she couldn't believe places like this existed in the UK.

Her pregnancy had been painful, Lucy said. At one point, things got so bad that her solicitor had to intervene to ensure she was taken to the nearby hospital for medical attention. The staff at Yarl's Wood were dismissive of her complaints; there's a prevalent culture of disbelief, and women are often accused of pretending to be ill to strengthen their asylum case. Concerns have repeatedly been raised about the quality of the healthcare provision at Yarl's Wood, and Lucy had no idea what was going to happen to her or her baby.

About a month after she was detained, Lucy was released. She had nowhere to go, and had to rely on the kindness of strangers until her baby boy was born. Her son is now three months old and they are living in the community, but their asylum status is still in limbo.

About a month after I first met Lucy, I also met Priya* in Yarl's Wood, where she'd been for about six weeks. She was 25, and around five months pregnant; her story is also told in .

I visit Yarl's Wood about once a month, and always take small gifts for the women I'm visiting – usually nice smellies, body lotions and shampoos. When I asked Priya what she wanted me to bring, she asked for a photo of a baby girl to look at, and I felt so saddened by the simplicity of her request. During her time in Yarl's Wood, she'd been taken to Bedford hospital for her 20 week scan, so she knew she was having a girl and desperately wanted to imagine what she might be like.

Priya had been taken late for her appointment, escorted by Yarl's Wood officers, and hadn't had time to speak to the midwife afterwards. She was clearly frustrated, anxious, and uncertain about what to expect. "I used to worry about myself, but now I only worry about what will happen to my daughter," she told me.

She also felt very alone. She has no family, either in the UK or her home country, and her partner, like her, is an asylum seeker. Although they spoke on the phone every day, he lived in asylum support accommodation at the other end of the country, and couldn't afford to visit. At the time, I was the only 'social' visitor she'd had. I couldn't believe how tiny and fragile she looked when we first met, but she told me she felt weak and sick all the time.

She struggled to eat the food that was provided, and had been unable to access proper support for her depression, low blood pressure, and problems sleeping. The experience of detention is immensely distressing, and over half the women we surveyed in detention said they thought about killing themselves. For Priya, pregnancy and the separation from her partner also made her more emotionally vulnerable, but staff were again dismissive and unkind when she sought help for her mental health problems.

Lucy and Priya's stories are heartbreaking, but sadly they are not alone in their experiences. Over the course of 2014, 99 pregnant women were detained in Yarl's Wood – despite the Home Office's own policy that pregnant women should only be detained under 'exceptional circumstances'.

At Women for Refugee Women we know, from the stories of women like Lucy and Priya, that detention is no place for pregnant women. And it's not just our opinion – two recent independent reviews, by HM Prisons Inspectorate and Stephen Shaw, as well as medical and legal experts, have expressed similar concerns about pregnant women being detained. Join our Set Her Free campaign to ensure all women who seek asylum in the UK are treated with dignity and respect - sign the petition here.

*Names have been changed

OP posts:
Shutthatdoor · 08/03/2016 12:34

I think Mumsnet needs to have a think about the level of vitriol aimed at threads related to helping refugees. I would like a response from Mumsnet on this as I feel a lot of posters are being put off posting by the vehemence of others

Works both ways.

If you don't think there should be open boarders etc the words xenophobic, bigot and right wing get thrown around. Along with veiled PA remarks.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 12:35

I think Emily should have a think about answering the numerous questions that have been put to her over the numerous threads she's started/commented on and she's ignored before she calls on MN to do anything.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 13:07

I agree we Emily. I find it saddening to see so many posters calling for our government to disregard international law, human rights standards and basic human decency. Once we start seeing some people as less deserving of human rights than others, that's a very dangerous path. And not one I want to go down.

The standards for how we should treat refugees and asylum seekers boil down to being about human rights. The European convention on human rights was established in the wake of WWII and the Holocaust. It's an important set of principles which all countries should seek to uphold, not an example of 'pc gone mad'. Sad

Nottodaythankyouorever · 08/03/2016 13:10

I agree with shut.

Throwing around insults because people don't agree with you is daft.

People take it to the extreme and label people far too easily.

kirinm · 08/03/2016 13:11

Rorty - these are people fleeing countries because their lives are at risk. Given that we, the UK, have a tendency to involve ourselves in wars / bombing of countries, we in line with the rest of the world have an obligation to treat refugees with some common decency. Your 'fly back to where you come from' comment is grim. What level of treatment should a refugee be willing to accept that would placate you?

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 13:13

Who is throwing around insults?

Some of the posts on this thread have been appalling in their disregard for the rights of other human beings. That's a fact. I don't need to insult anyone to point it out.

I don't want to live in a country that would throw a pregnant, raped asylum seeker back on a plane. Such ideas are in contravention of international law and simply barbaric.

That's not an insult, it's a fact.

Shutthatdoor · 08/03/2016 13:15

Who is throwing around insults?

On previous threads it has happened. Emily was talking about all refuge threads not just this one.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 13:19

If thinking that someone is less deserving of having their human rights respected because they're foreign isn't xenophobic, I don't know what is.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 13:23

I would say that comparing a pregnant rape victim to a murderer (again, simply because she's foreign), and saying that they deserve to be treated accordingly, is pretty bigoted too.

Please explain to me who I shouldn't use the words 'bigoted or 'xenophobic' in relation to some of the posts on this thread? Because I'd be telling the truth.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 13:24

^ why I shouldn't use

Shutthatdoor · 08/03/2016 13:28

I repeat. My response isn't to this thread I particular, it is all threads. My response was to Emily who is fully aware as to what has been posted on previous threads.

I don't want to derail this one any further.

Emmiy · 08/03/2016 13:41

So they are illegal immigrants?

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 08/03/2016 13:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 13:57

I support anyone who complains about having their human rights disregarded. Just because what they are fleeing may be worse, that does not give anyone licence to treat them inhumanely.

And emmiy, the words you are looking for are 'asylum seekers'.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:03

So what exactly ARE asylum seekers allowed to complain about.

Obviously they shouldn't complain abput being denied medical care in your view... how about when the guards at Yarls Wood sexually assault them (as has been reported previously)... should they shut up and put up with that too?

At what point does a human rights violation become important enough for you to care?

kirinm · 08/03/2016 14:10

Would you refer to a British woman's rapist as a 'shitty man with a shitty attitude'? Or would you call him a rapist?

They are ENTITLED to come and seek refuge here. They are also ENTITLED to be treated well with respect and in accordance with international law.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:13

Not only that, but it is our willingness to do so, our willingness to uphold human rights that marks us out as a decent and civilised society. I want no part of a society that treats people as less deserving of human rights simply because of their ethnicity or nationality.

Indigofactory · 08/03/2016 14:32

Lucy was 23 when she fell pregnant as a result of brutal sexual violence. Her mother bought her a plane ticket to the UK, thinking she and her baby would be safe here - but she was detained straight from the airport.

Does anyone know which country the woman came from? Would that have an influence on the process which led to her detention?

It's my understanding that asylum seekers must show that they have a well-founded fear of persecution due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group, and are unable or unwilling to seek protection from the authorities in their own country. The definition is forward-looking, so even if an asylum seeker has suffered terrible harm in the past, they will not get asylum if there is no risk of anything happening to them in the future.

I can understand why there are opposing views on this post; I think knowing more about the circumstances of where the girl came from might clarify why her mother sent her to the UK in the first place?

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:34

Do you think that knowing the country she came from might justify denying her medical treatment?

It's irrelevant. The strength of her asylum claim is also irrelevant. We should treat all asylum seekers humanely while their cases are reviewed.

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 14:36

Sirchen, I don't have to answer anything I don't want to, particularly to people that have launched nasty personal attacks against me. Before you say I have done the same, I certainly have not. Pointing out prejudice and xenophobia is not personally attacking someone.

I think there is a need for balance on mumsnet and free speech must be recognised but I don't understand at the minute why that free speech seems to entail dragging details from thread to thread and launching nasty personal attacks.

Leavemy, rape and sexual assault are more than 'shitty attitudes' I think.

When what you flee to is also unsafe, corrupt and cruel, of course there is cause to complain.

I disagree with the view that women are somehow choosing to come to the UKand 'abuse' the system. This is from an article from a Bosnian war refugee, but could also apply to victims of political regimes.

'Firstly, we should all understand what being a war refugee means: it is neither voluntary, nor planned. There is nothing that you or any European government can do to “encourage” or “discourage” such behaviour, because it is not a behaviour. War refugees are people literally running to save their lives. They have no one to protect them in their country of origin'.

blog.prosper.community/the-life-of-a-war-refugee/

The woman first mentioned by the op was sexually assaulted and also had no other choice but to run for their life. It saddens me that the UK and Europe are becoming less and less of a safe haven for people in this situation.

Indigofactory · 08/03/2016 14:40

It saddens me that the UK and Europe are becoming less and less of a safe haven for people in this situation.

It saddens me that there are so many whose own countries are no longer safe havens. The places they grew up, where they lived and went to school, whose food and celebrations are so familiar.

Who are uprooting and moving to places where they may not be welcome or may have difficulty fitting in.

I am so sad that there are unsafe places on this beautiful planet.

What can we do to make other countries safer? We must do something because these stories are heartbreaking.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 14:47

That's your modus operandi Emily - start threads or post vociferously on other threads, and then when questioned in detail (not by people launching attacks on you) you refuse to answer.

Until you do then I suggest you stop calling on MN to police threads or posts you disagree with. By all means report them - but the fact that they stand suggests to me that they are well within the guidelines and are simply not to your liking. I would also suggest you stop trying to second guess why others are posting or not posting.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:49

Actually she's right that people have been put off posting by the refugee threads. That's true for me, and others than I'm aware of.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:50

And no one, no matter how vociferously they post, is obliged to respond to anything they don't want to. I'm a bit confused as to why anyone would think otherwise tbh.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 14:54

'People'?

If you don't like some of the posts then report them - or stay away. It's a bit like the Feminist board - it's a topic that elicits strong views. Some are unacceptable and are reported and removed, others are simply views that you might not agree with.

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