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Guest post: "Detention is no place for pregnant women"

306 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 07/03/2016 17:40

Lucy* was 23 when she fell pregnant as a result of brutal sexual violence. Her mother bought her a plane ticket to the UK, thinking she and her baby would be safe here - but she was detained straight from the airport. She arrived frightened, alone and pregnant, and was locked up.

Lucy spent four weeks in Yarl's Wood between months five and six of her pregnancy. She told me that she couldn't believe places like this existed in the UK.

Her pregnancy had been painful, Lucy said. At one point, things got so bad that her solicitor had to intervene to ensure she was taken to the nearby hospital for medical attention. The staff at Yarl's Wood were dismissive of her complaints; there's a prevalent culture of disbelief, and women are often accused of pretending to be ill to strengthen their asylum case. Concerns have repeatedly been raised about the quality of the healthcare provision at Yarl's Wood, and Lucy had no idea what was going to happen to her or her baby.

About a month after she was detained, Lucy was released. She had nowhere to go, and had to rely on the kindness of strangers until her baby boy was born. Her son is now three months old and they are living in the community, but their asylum status is still in limbo.

About a month after I first met Lucy, I also met Priya* in Yarl's Wood, where she'd been for about six weeks. She was 25, and around five months pregnant; her story is also told in .

I visit Yarl's Wood about once a month, and always take small gifts for the women I'm visiting – usually nice smellies, body lotions and shampoos. When I asked Priya what she wanted me to bring, she asked for a photo of a baby girl to look at, and I felt so saddened by the simplicity of her request. During her time in Yarl's Wood, she'd been taken to Bedford hospital for her 20 week scan, so she knew she was having a girl and desperately wanted to imagine what she might be like.

Priya had been taken late for her appointment, escorted by Yarl's Wood officers, and hadn't had time to speak to the midwife afterwards. She was clearly frustrated, anxious, and uncertain about what to expect. "I used to worry about myself, but now I only worry about what will happen to my daughter," she told me.

She also felt very alone. She has no family, either in the UK or her home country, and her partner, like her, is an asylum seeker. Although they spoke on the phone every day, he lived in asylum support accommodation at the other end of the country, and couldn't afford to visit. At the time, I was the only 'social' visitor she'd had. I couldn't believe how tiny and fragile she looked when we first met, but she told me she felt weak and sick all the time.

She struggled to eat the food that was provided, and had been unable to access proper support for her depression, low blood pressure, and problems sleeping. The experience of detention is immensely distressing, and over half the women we surveyed in detention said they thought about killing themselves. For Priya, pregnancy and the separation from her partner also made her more emotionally vulnerable, but staff were again dismissive and unkind when she sought help for her mental health problems.

Lucy and Priya's stories are heartbreaking, but sadly they are not alone in their experiences. Over the course of 2014, 99 pregnant women were detained in Yarl's Wood – despite the Home Office's own policy that pregnant women should only be detained under 'exceptional circumstances'.

At Women for Refugee Women we know, from the stories of women like Lucy and Priya, that detention is no place for pregnant women. And it's not just our opinion – two recent independent reviews, by HM Prisons Inspectorate and Stephen Shaw, as well as medical and legal experts, have expressed similar concerns about pregnant women being detained. Join our Set Her Free campaign to ensure all women who seek asylum in the UK are treated with dignity and respect - sign the petition here.

*Names have been changed

OP posts:
WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:55

Yes, people. Posters. Not sure how else you want me to describe them?

Its obviously not all posters, but yes, some are unhappy at the recent tone of a number of threads across a number of different boards.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 14:56

Then report them and let MN decide whether or not they break talk guidelines.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:57

This thread is a case in point. The tone is horribly bigoted and cruel (as I've explained upthread). Many posters don't want to be part of a community where posts like that are allowed to stand.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 14:58

I will. But it was you who started having a personal go at a poster on this thread.

Why don't you report her post and let mn decide rather than pursue what is obviously a personal issue?

RortyCrankle · 08/03/2016 14:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 15:00

That's true Indigo. Refugees and asylum seekers now join the ranks of the disabled and the poor as targets for blame and resentment and are used by the government as a scapegoat to divert attention from their own responsibility for poverty and inequality. This presents difficulties for them in countries that are supposed to be places of refuge and safety.

There are often no alternatives for them in leaving their home, as the article I linked to demonstrates. Making the countries safer during war time seems impossible to me.

However, despite prejuidce and xenophobia being very present in society today and played on by the government's language, such as 'bunch of migrants', many people are welcomed and do fit in and some use their previous experience of detention to be empathetic to others. If women like 'Lucy' are supported in the right way and listened to, I see no reason why they can't fitin.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 15:00

Please stop making spurious claims about what 'many posters' want and don't want to be part of - unless you're claiming to speak for 'many posters'?

Have you reported the posts that you believe to be bigoted and cruel?

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 15:01

Why don't you report her post and let mn decide

Decide what? Emily hasn't posted anything that has broken talk guidelines.

RhodaBull · 08/03/2016 15:02

Well, quite a few other posters don't want to belong to a community where certain people can decide what can and what cannot be discussed.

I don't believe anyone has broken talk guidelines, but they have disagreed with the OP and stated why.

It would be a very sad forum if we had "No Platforming" where people could not speak if they were not on message.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:10

It would also be a very sad forum if it allowed hate speech and bigotry to stand. And yes, I've reported.

OurBlanche · 08/03/2016 15:14

Again? The problem is that there are 2 or 3 main issues inside every one of these threads: the humanitarian issue; the status of any/all refugees; the apparent perception of the UK (and other countries) as open, safe, better; the political will vs financial ability, compounded by fear, ignorance and xenophobia - often promulgated by the same newspapers that then cry foul, set up some poorly researched pity page and then act all outraged when someone points out how disingenuous/outright misleading they are being.

I have to admit that I am getting compassion fatigue. I find I cannot consider 1 woman's story without placing it within the bigger picture. That bigger picture is full of far more wide reaching issues, many of which cannot be 'fixed' by simply feeling bad, responsible, guilty, for m/any refugees or highlighting the story of one or another and trying to make that one story represent a whole, more complex truth.

How few/many refugees the UK, France, Germany, etc takes in is really not the real issue. But it is easier to make that a point of debate than to shout about the root cause of the refugee crisis and make worldwide changes - which is probably impossible, anyway.

Having recently met and worked with some non EU refugees, including women like 'Lucy' I find myself stuck in a fug of cognitive dissonance...

... whose shame is that? Mine? The UK government? The EU? The warmongers, religious zealots of A N Other country/culture?

Pick one and tell me how to fix it! In the meantime, I am really sorry. But I find I can no longer respond to such stories as that in the OP. It is too emotive, too simplistic and even if 'Lucy' gets what she needs, the root cause of her current predicament will not.

Sad/callous a I know this makes me sound - can we stop focussing on individuals and start looking more at the milieu in which such stories begin? Then, maybe, we can find a way to really make a difference.

SirChenjin · 08/03/2016 15:15

It doesn't allow anything that breaches talk guidelines to stand and has already deleted one post on this thread for that very reason.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:15

Decide what? Emily hasn't posted anything that has broken talk guidelines.

Precisely. So I'm confused to why there appears to be a need to pursue her across different threads talking about her 'modus operandi' and her refusal to answer your questions.

I haven't seen your previous interactions with her (I've avoided refugee threads for weeks), but from this thread it looks like you are behaving appallingly towards her.

Rorty - as you've endorsed that post maybe you'll answer my question? Precisely what level of inhumane treatment ARE asylum seekers allowed to complain about, in your view?

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:18

The deletion count appears to be rising. Interesting that the post Rorty thinks is so brilliant has now been deleted....

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 15:19

Some posters have expressed confusion about why women in detention centres are complaining British women have a right to complain or report if they think they are notbeing treated well. For example, if I was pregnant and had severe pains and my doctor refused an appointment, I would have grounds to report or complain. Should women in detention centres not have those rights? Do you believe that different laws should be applied to refugees and asylum seekers?

OurBlanche · 08/03/2016 15:20

It's much the same across all forums at the moment. Like an extra sensitive filter has been added. It seems to be closing down a lot of, admittedly fairly raucous, yet interesting debates/discussions.

DontCareHowIWantItNow · 08/03/2016 15:20

It would be a very sad forum if we had "No Platforming" where people could not speak if they were not on message.

I agree

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:22

Some of the posts on this thread were verging on hate speech. That's not debate, it's despicable.

Shutthatdoor · 08/03/2016 15:23

The deletion count appears to be rising. Interesting that the post Rorty thinks is so brilliant has now been deleted

So? Not sure what you are saying.

Posts on both 'sides' have been deleted in the past.

WomanWithAltitude · 08/03/2016 15:24

Well said Emily. This comes down to whether we believe that all humans should have rights, and be treated humanely, or just those lucky enough to be born where we are.

OurBlanche · 08/03/2016 15:24

Hate speech is a bit OTT, though.

Nottodaythankyouorever · 08/03/2016 15:25

Hate speech is a bit OTT, though

Agreed.

Bubblesinthesummer · 08/03/2016 15:26

Hate speech is a bit OTT, though

I also agree and it is such things like this which are said which also puts people off posting.

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 08/03/2016 15:26

Our Blance, I was not going to post on this thread.

Mumsnet as far as I have ever seen has always been a forum where people say more than " oh dear thats awful" there is always debate.

Its rough and tumble here but long term mnetters know that.

However on a side note, I have always been led to believe that the forum Net Mums, is more like that? More agreeable?

Perhaps its worth checking out if that is the sort of blanket response some posters are seeking?

OurBlanche excellent post.

I agree with you.
Its all so sad.

emilybohemia · 08/03/2016 15:31

'Bloody ridiculous. Why not just tell any woman that wants to 'jump on a plane' and come here, possibly with no support network, way of making a living, that if they get pregnant first it'll be a free ride all the way. Absolutely not'

I still think this comment by Tigger is quite victim blamey. The woman in the op was seually assaulted, but here Tigger states 'get pregnant first.'