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Guest debate: The imposition of the new junior doctor contract

324 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 18/02/2016 16:15

Last Thursday, I cried for our NHS.

I was listening to Jeremy Hunt explain why he had to impose a hugely unpopular contract on doctors. Just 24 hours earlier I had been buoyed by public support on the picket lines, and now here I was, left frustrated and incredulous at the government's action. Despite the Royal Colleges disagreeing with imposition, despite multiple demonstrations and overwhelming polls demonstrating public support against an unsafe contract, the government decided to unilaterally impose a contract that would supposedly allow them to fulfil their party manifesto. Even the Patients Association, usually staunch adversaries of doctors, spoke out against the government's imposition, calling it 'unacceptable'.

We keep hearing the Conservative Party pledge to deliver a 'truly seven day NHS'. This sounds like a lovely idea, which in theory every doctor would support (and, of course, we do already provide a seven day service, routinely working nights and weekends). However, without the necessary extra funding and resources it is frankly dangerous. The government has failed to fully examine the effect this contract will have on patient safety or staffing levels, focusing instead solely on how they can stretch a service without spending more money.

This was never about politics for the doctors. We are driven by concerns for the safety of our patients and the NHS workforce; we want to preserve the NHS for future generations. It is becoming increasingly laughable to hear the Conservative Party call themselves the party of the NHS. Our own Health Secretary refuses to engage and debate with junior doctors. Our Prime Minister has stayed eerily silent throughout this whole dispute, despite presiding over the first doctors' strike in four decades.

Our rotas are already under-filled. Many specialities face retention problems as more doctors leave to work overseas having struggled to maintain a safe work/life balance in the NHS. This contract will see many more doctors resign in despair, leaving a thin workforce spread ever thinner across seven days. We are being asked to do more for less and this is breaking a generation of doctors who are already on their knees with the continued underfunding of the NHS. Currently, one in two junior doctors chooses not to continue with their speciality training. The rate of mental health problems in doctors is worryingly high; it is only likely to get worse. All of this coupled with less robust safeguards on working hours will inevitably result in patient safety being compromised.

I never thought that I would have to strike as a doctor, but I know that any short-term disruption to my patients will be outweighed by the damage this contract will have on patients in the long term.

The government is set on changing the meaning of a weekend for all NHS workers, starting with us, the junior doctors. I have been a junior doctor for five years and have a little boy who is 20 months old. Under this contract, I could be forced to work every other weekend and more nights, spending more time away from my son. My husband is also a medic – many people marry within the profession – and we're already worried about juggling childcare under the new contract. If we end up working alternate weekends, we won't have any weekends together, but if we're in sync we'll have to find someone to look after our son during that time. We already struggle to arrange childcare to cover our night shifts, and the proposed weekend hours will only put a further strain on our finances, and our relationship.

The NHS is not perfect, but it is there for us in our time of need. Speak to any doctor and they will name you 101 things which need improving in the service before embarking on the alleged 'truly seven day NHS'. Our accident and emergency departments are crumbling under the weight of admissions; our mental health services are letting down the most vulnerable people in our society. Our GPs account for 90% of all NHS patient contacts and yet receive only 9% of the funding; our hospitals are filled with patients who we cannot discharge safely because funding to community services has again been slashed.

The government has used its nuclear option and we have been left reeling. We will slowly discover what the fallout will be for you - our patients - and for us - your doctors. Stand with us: your junior doctors need you more than ever.

OP posts:
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TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 22/02/2016 11:32

Really? Hmm That's your response to the multiple questions asked of you/hunt/this government's actions on this issue?

You are an MP? You are a paid public servant. Do you not think you have a duty to actually engage with those who have taken the time to comment/question what you are doing with this dispute. Or is it your position that you are under no obligation whatsoever to actually respond/defend your position/policies despite being paid what, £70k+, to do the job you were supposedly elected to do.

That is a worse response than no response at all. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself Gummer.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 22/02/2016 11:43

I'm so angry with the Tory govt now and so distrusting of them that I'm going to vote for a Brexit as I can't bring myself to vote for anything Cameron wants anymore. This contract debacle will have far wider implications than just being confined to a debate on doctors contracts.

sugar21 · 22/02/2016 11:52

Dreadful response, does not answer questions
We the electorate who pay your inflated salary deserve better
The Junior Doctors deserve better

Carriemac · 22/02/2016 11:59

That pay calculator is rigged and who ever did that should be sacked. Ben Gummer you are a fool if you think mumsnet are too stupid to notice your lies.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617645/Government-accused-rigging-Junior-doctors-pay-calculator-calm-down

Mner · 22/02/2016 12:16

MNHQ Any debate I have ever gone to, has both sides present their argument, then stay and answer questions from the audience. Surely if it was a debate only between the two OPs, Ben should at least be expected to answer Dr Paola's questions (and vice versa)? Otherwise it is just two people making a speech (side by side in this instance).

I would welcome someone coming on from the DH to engage with the people they claim to represent.

LineyReborn · 22/02/2016 12:27

I doubt that was even Ben Gummer posting earlier. It was likely just an aide cut-and-pasting a couple of links, using the MN account that had been opened for his boss.

Lynnm63 · 22/02/2016 12:40

This Tory crowd don't have the balls to debate anything. They can't pull the wool over our eyes thankfully very few mumsnetters are falling for Tory spin. Ben Gummer you should be ashamed of yourself and Mumsnetters HQ, you dropped the ball alowing this waste of oxygen to pretend to debate. If this govt won't engage with us you should refuse to let them on here at all.

I'm fully behind the junior Drs and in any event if. I'm asked to choose between a politician and a dr I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I can throw them.

Lynnm63 · 22/02/2016 12:41

*Allowing, I was so cross I was typing too fast!

LineyReborn · 22/02/2016 13:03

There really are shades of Blinky Ben Swain MP in this performance.

GColdtimer · 22/02/2016 14:14

I would be falling if my chair laughing at that response from Ben Gummer if I wasn't so fucking angry.

Have read the spin, I want the many intelligent, sensible questions posed here answered.

They clearly can't answer them, otherwise they would have done.

GColdtimer · 22/02/2016 14:18

Have reported and asked that MN do not allow paid public servants to spout their propaganda on here again under the guise of debate.

It's as bad as the BB bloody C.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 22/02/2016 15:14

Totally agree with TwoFalls that politicians should not be allowed to use MN to spout party propaganda and I think this thread was a mistake on both MNHQ and DoH sides. Though it's nice to see it backfire so badly for DoH.

If politicians want to come and try and brainwash people then it should be in the form of a webchat. To post total shit like this and run is bad form.

JuniorDrPaola · 22/02/2016 21:45

NHS Employers just hosted a Facebook chat where we could ask questions about our contract. It lasted for just over an hour and was essentially a cut and paste job from their website and yet the vast majority of questions were not answered. Will Ben Gummer be more forthcoming in a web chat?

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 22/02/2016 21:49

He's never going to come for a web chat in a million years because he knows what he's saying is total bollocks and that he would just dig an even bigger hole than he already has. In the tiny chance he would come for a web chat he would just ignore questions, spout more shit and leave me in need of some IV labetalol.

Lanchester · 22/02/2016 22:22

Liney et al:
I am an absolute marvel, and if anyone says otherwise i will report them and get their post removed :)

Lanchester · 22/02/2016 22:28

twofalls Mon 22-Feb-16 14:18:20
"Have reported and asked that MN do not allow paid public servants to spout their propaganda on here again under the guise of debate.
It's as bad as the BB bloody C."

twofalls you presumably do see the irony in that post you made ??

Thr "Public Servants" you refer to can be read as "JDs"

Mner · 22/02/2016 22:32

It's a bit different isn't it? The JDs are on here, they presented their argument and are now engaging with the public, answering questions, providing evidence to back up their statements.

The Public Servants presented their argument and left the room.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 22/02/2016 22:38

Yes, the junior Drs are actually debating.

I would be quite happy with Gummer coming here and debating. Id still disagree with him but I'd be happy to listen, engage and accept that he has a right to come here and debate!

MNHQ could just have labelled his part of the "debate" as "party political broadcast" instead.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 22/02/2016 22:40

And I think there's a big difference between a public sector worker who is employed in healthcare and an MP who is supposedly a true public servent, elected to represent the people.

Lanchester · 22/02/2016 22:50

JDs - Guys and Gals -
In so many posts on this thread you and other NHS Staff are just reinforcing each others opinions.
You obviously do share a common self interest in maintaining the status quo.
That means you are conservatives with a small c - with regard to this issue of the Junior Doctors contract.

Because of refusing to believe you may be mistaken, your average expressed opinion seems to be skewing further and further from the average opinion of the quite diverse types of people in society - Only about 1 in 30 adults in this country are NHS Staff.

You are only persuading yourselves.
What is the point of that?

Most people are a lot poorer than you, and do not get overtime for standard rostered weekends,
and those people are paying your salaries.
Why not work together with Jeremy Hunt to make the NHS affordable and more effective and to increase the amount of care available to patients 7 days per week.

Ambroxide · 22/02/2016 22:51

Lanchester, you clearly haven't read any of this or clicked on any of the links or bothered to try and understand any of the opposing viewpoints. This is not making you look clever or interesting. You just look like Jezza's mum, tbh. Although even she prob has more sense given that even Cameron's mum appears to be campaigning against tory party cuts.

JuniorDrPaola · 22/02/2016 23:41

Last time I checked, doctors were tax payers too. I know you disagree with me which is fine but we can just agree to disagree. No one in their right mind would happily accept an increase in hours for less money with all their health and safety protection gone as well. I want a fair and safe contract and that's what I'll continue to fight for.

JuniorDrPaola · 22/02/2016 23:54

The Conservative manifesto pledge promised to prioritise resources to frontline services in the NHS by employing 9,500 more doctors and 6,900 more nurses. All seems to have gone quiet on that front ...

Lanchester · 23/02/2016 00:58

WhoTheFuckIsSimon Mon 22-Feb-16 22:40:02

but in that case why do NHS Staff themselves OFTEN say in the media that that they are "Public Servants" ?

or that they are are at the "Coal face" and sometimes even say
they are "at the front line" ?

I think a soldier in the field is at the front line and he actually truly is a public servant as he really is serving the public and putting himself at significant risk for the public.
I read in a newspaper recently that the MoD is tightening up on the cost of meals provided to soldiers and that the new catering contract only allows £1.86 per day per soldier for food......Surely that must have been a misprint in the paper I was reading ! ? Surely soldiers deserve better reecognition than that for their public service.

Anyhow, some true public servants e.g. soldiers are among the poorer parts of society, whilst some of the BMA members are very well rewarded for their work in comparison.

Whistleblowers are public servants because they are putting their careers at risk for the public good.

Lanchester · 23/02/2016 01:10

JuniorDrPaola Mon 22-Feb-16 23:41:37
"Last time I checked, doctors were tax payers too."

Certainly that's true but NHS Staff are only 1.3 million out of whatever the working population is (probably over 30 million people),
so obviously the NHS Staff only provide a small proportion of NHS Funding themselves.

By the way just to state again, there are many very dedicated doctors in the NHS and hopefully you yourself are one of them.
But really is that so extraordinary?
Surely doctors should be that way.

I'm not just saying this:
I do really think it is an honour for anyone to be a doctor (I think I would feel that way myself if I were a doctor), and it is in a way admirable when doctors really care about their patients.

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