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Guest debate: The imposition of the new junior doctor contract

324 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 18/02/2016 16:15

Last Thursday, I cried for our NHS.

I was listening to Jeremy Hunt explain why he had to impose a hugely unpopular contract on doctors. Just 24 hours earlier I had been buoyed by public support on the picket lines, and now here I was, left frustrated and incredulous at the government's action. Despite the Royal Colleges disagreeing with imposition, despite multiple demonstrations and overwhelming polls demonstrating public support against an unsafe contract, the government decided to unilaterally impose a contract that would supposedly allow them to fulfil their party manifesto. Even the Patients Association, usually staunch adversaries of doctors, spoke out against the government's imposition, calling it 'unacceptable'.

We keep hearing the Conservative Party pledge to deliver a 'truly seven day NHS'. This sounds like a lovely idea, which in theory every doctor would support (and, of course, we do already provide a seven day service, routinely working nights and weekends). However, without the necessary extra funding and resources it is frankly dangerous. The government has failed to fully examine the effect this contract will have on patient safety or staffing levels, focusing instead solely on how they can stretch a service without spending more money.

This was never about politics for the doctors. We are driven by concerns for the safety of our patients and the NHS workforce; we want to preserve the NHS for future generations. It is becoming increasingly laughable to hear the Conservative Party call themselves the party of the NHS. Our own Health Secretary refuses to engage and debate with junior doctors. Our Prime Minister has stayed eerily silent throughout this whole dispute, despite presiding over the first doctors' strike in four decades.

Our rotas are already under-filled. Many specialities face retention problems as more doctors leave to work overseas having struggled to maintain a safe work/life balance in the NHS. This contract will see many more doctors resign in despair, leaving a thin workforce spread ever thinner across seven days. We are being asked to do more for less and this is breaking a generation of doctors who are already on their knees with the continued underfunding of the NHS. Currently, one in two junior doctors chooses not to continue with their speciality training. The rate of mental health problems in doctors is worryingly high; it is only likely to get worse. All of this coupled with less robust safeguards on working hours will inevitably result in patient safety being compromised.

I never thought that I would have to strike as a doctor, but I know that any short-term disruption to my patients will be outweighed by the damage this contract will have on patients in the long term.

The government is set on changing the meaning of a weekend for all NHS workers, starting with us, the junior doctors. I have been a junior doctor for five years and have a little boy who is 20 months old. Under this contract, I could be forced to work every other weekend and more nights, spending more time away from my son. My husband is also a medic – many people marry within the profession – and we're already worried about juggling childcare under the new contract. If we end up working alternate weekends, we won't have any weekends together, but if we're in sync we'll have to find someone to look after our son during that time. We already struggle to arrange childcare to cover our night shifts, and the proposed weekend hours will only put a further strain on our finances, and our relationship.

The NHS is not perfect, but it is there for us in our time of need. Speak to any doctor and they will name you 101 things which need improving in the service before embarking on the alleged 'truly seven day NHS'. Our accident and emergency departments are crumbling under the weight of admissions; our mental health services are letting down the most vulnerable people in our society. Our GPs account for 90% of all NHS patient contacts and yet receive only 9% of the funding; our hospitals are filled with patients who we cannot discharge safely because funding to community services has again been slashed.

The government has used its nuclear option and we have been left reeling. We will slowly discover what the fallout will be for you - our patients - and for us - your doctors. Stand with us: your junior doctors need you more than ever.

OP posts:
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GColdtimer · 18/02/2016 19:59

MN is the guest poster going to engage with us on this or was it just an oooortunity to spout more lies.

There have been some excellent questions. I simply want yo know how is this 7 day NHS going to work without more doctors? Surely all that will happen is that there will be less doctors on duty in the week?

gasbird · 18/02/2016 20:20

How can stretching already overworked doctors over 7 days to do elective work be beneficial?
If it's cost neutral as stated then either doctors are going to be working more hours or be paid less.
Which is it?

Floraclare · 18/02/2016 20:25

This government just lie and lie and lie. The idea of a 7-day NHS sounds all lovely, but without thousands of extra doctors and nurses and a big increase in investment, it is all just nonsense and you would get a bigger dose of reality from watching X-Files. If this contract is really about increasing the number of doctors working at weekends, who is going to be doing their work on weekdays? Are the government planning to cut weekday services to increase the doctors present at the weekend? We already have gaps on nearly every rota and already work many extra hours on top of what we should. And doctors already work regular weekends and nights - and in some acute specialties doctors already work up to 3 out of 4 weekends. Most of us could be made to work every weekend on our current contract, without needing to increase our pay - however, if this is done, who will be doing the weekday work? Nothing that the government says makes any sense

This contract and all the government lies have demoralised a generation of doctors, which could lead to many doctors leaving the NHS. Huge harm has been done to the NHS and I truly fear for the future of our healthcare system. David Cameron should be ashamed - the NHS is NOT safe in his hands.

I really hope that the public will support doctors, I expect that nurses and all other health professionals will be next. It's incredibly sad that this government seems to have no respect for public sector workers

clopper · 18/02/2016 20:25

whatwouldvirchowdo.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/weve-found-jeremy-hunts-book-and-yes-he-does-want-to-privatise-the-nhs/
This is what worries me. Long ago Jeremy Hunt co-authored a book advocating privatisation of the NHS. I feel it's all smoke and mirrors, talk it down, destroy staff morale and unions, make sure there is plenty of bad publicity so that workers seem unreasonable and then let private firms come to the 'rescue'. This is exactly the pattern they've followed in education.

JuniorDrPaola · 18/02/2016 20:26

Thank you for your support! We're not going to give up just yet because this is an important fight we have to win. Write to your MPs and explain why their plans are so fundamentally flawed. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Mner · 18/02/2016 20:29

Hospitals open for longer hours with doctors apparently now to work fewer hours and no more money for any new doctors. Please tell us Ben how this can actually work in reality (and that's even before we go into the lack of real evidence behind your claims)?

On a slight sidenote, how does Cameron always manage to arrange it so someone else is his scapegoat? First Nick Clegg, now Jeremy Hunt (and you too Ben I'm afraid). This 7 day NHS thing is supposed to be his election pledge but he stays clear away from any accusations.

Carriemac · 18/02/2016 20:31

Ben gummer you are a liar and a cheat. I work for the NHS, as does my husband. My son is a medical student. In 5 years time, none of us will be working in the uk. DH will burn out, his cure t rota and workload is unsustainable. I am moving to a univeristy post. My son will emigrate with our blessing. The next election will be all about the NHS, and the tories are quite frankly screwed.

clopper · 18/02/2016 20:32

Perhaps interested mumsnetters would be interested in some of the open petitions concerning the NHS.
www.google.co.uk/search?q=government+petitions&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
I have signed the one asking for a vote of no confidence in JH and also asking for MPs to work Saturday 'as a normal working day'.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 18/02/2016 20:34

Is ben Gummer related to that beef burger bloke MP?

That was a load of shitty spin as well wasn't it?

NancyDroop · 18/02/2016 20:35

Thank you Dr Rodriguez, you and your colleagues have my full support. I am a scientist and find it very frustrating being ruled by politicians who choose spin over fact.

I just listened to a very good Radio 4 programme called The Report, discussing the idea of the 7 day NHS.

I was very impressed by the statistician who pointed out that a true 7 day NHS would cost a lot more than current NICE guidelines on value for money (measured by cost vs increase in years lived x nr people affected). She stated that if the true aimof the government to save most people years, there are arguably many better ways to achieve this.

Mner · 18/02/2016 20:47

Nancy That sounds like a sensible and rational discussion! The kind of talks we should be having. If only our MPs would follow suit!

Dr Rodgriguez I have emailed my MP. She might well be getting sick of me now though - that's 3 times in the last six months! Haha.

LineyReborn · 18/02/2016 20:57

JuniorDrRodriguez Thank you for coming on tonight and offering to answer questions. I respect you very much for that.

(If only Ben Gummer or Jeremy Hunt would do the same... some chance, eh?)

LineyReborn · 18/02/2016 21:00

Simon wiki suggests that Ben Gummer's dad is John Selwyn Gummer the Lord Deben. I don't think it's outwith the public interest to say that?

Ambroxide · 18/02/2016 21:04

I am sick of being lied to by this government. This seems like just the latest in a long string of obfuscations and convenient lack of clarity about their plans. They are idiots and I am heartily sick of them.

I back the junior doctors and all their valuable colleagues in the NHS 100%.

Ambroxide · 18/02/2016 21:06

Also, how the hell will fining hospitals help? They do actually need that money, you know. The NHS is hardly over-funded. Stump up to train some doctors yourselves. Stop stealing from people who can't afford to lose the money.

SucksFake · 18/02/2016 21:26

It has been so heartening to read this thread. I am an NHS consultant, who fully supports my junior colleagues.
It has been so encouraging to read all of your comments, and intelligent questions, and your assertions that you will not be blindsided by spin.
It's clear you all love our NHS as much as we who work in it do. Please continue to challenge all the spin that this government is throwing at us, and fight for our NHS.

Thank you to all posters (except one....) Flowers

JuniorDrPaola · 18/02/2016 23:28

NHS employers have provided this as a possible rota. Ben Gummer has again misled us because I could be working consecutive weekends after all!

Guest debate: The imposition of the new junior doctor contract
Ratcliffet · 18/02/2016 23:35

Is this Government proud of the fact we have fewer doctors per capita in the UK than most other European countries?

Guest debate: The imposition of the new junior doctor contract
soapybox · 18/02/2016 23:44

Why has this been unpinned?

Did someone not like the responses they have had Hmm

Ratcliffet · 18/02/2016 23:45

This is why junior doctors need contractual safeguards on hours... When I was a junior doctor, my colleague was on a medical rota that should have had 4 doctors on it. 3 doctors were missing. She worked 15 hour days for months covering 60 patients. When her hours were monitored and found to be excessive, the trust advised they were discarding her hours from the overall EWTD monitoring exercise as there were too few doctors on her rota to provide reliable results!

nooddsocksforme · 18/02/2016 23:45

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeremy-hunt-misrepresenting-data-on-mortality-at-nhs-hospitals-doctor-who-conducted-study-says-a6872281.html

Even the people involved in some of the research are saying that this has been misrepresented. The differences in mortality rates could be down to a number of different factors .
The NHS functions because of the goodwill of staff at all grades and levels who work many hours over and above contracted hours. The present government has lost the goodwill of a generation of doctors and it will be difficult for it to survive the current insult . I suspect that is exactly what this government wants, they just want the blame to be directed elsewhere. I too am heartened by people on many threads who see through the political spin and lies.

WorriedForNHS · 19/02/2016 02:55

I echo the sentiments expressed in earlier comments and am completely fed up with this government. Since when has it been OK for politicians to shamefacedly lie to the people they are supposed to represent? I am 100% behind doctors, and if they need to strike to get a decent contract that pays them fairly they have my support.

I also want an NHS for my children, so that they do not grow up in a system where healthcare is only for those who can afford it.

I have friends who work in the NHS so have heard about the terrible underfunding and short staffing that is systematically destroying one of the things that makes me proud to be British. I am appalled at the privatisation of NHS services that is going on. This wasnt in your manifesto, I didnt get a chance to vote either for or against it. It seems that the NHS is being starved of funds, and you are driving away our precious doctors and nurses so that the whole thing fails. It looks more and more deliberate, and people are not as stupid as you clearly believe they are. Spin simply doesnt cut it anymore.

I was a lifelong conservative voter. Based on the lies, deceit and sheer disregard for everyone that I am seeing (in multiple areas), and especially the way you are handling the NHS and imposing reforms I wont be voting conservative again anytime soon, and probably ever. I know I am not alone; no-one I know would vote for your party again, and we are all ashamed we did last time around. Yes - times are hard, but how about asking us how the NHS should be funded? Have a referendum or go to the country if you want a privatised NHS. I want to see happy well looked after doctors, with enough of them, supported by an NHS that has sufficient funding in the right places. I read that your internal market is costing 10% of the NHS budget - but what has it actually delivered? Wouldnt it be better spent on staff, more of them, and making sure that their conditions are good enough to keep the best of them here for the future?

Its time for the Conservatives to think again.

BrunoK · 19/02/2016 03:09

ok perfect

Kbob · 19/02/2016 04:23

I have just managed to grab a tea break 1/2 way trough my 8 hour A&E shift, working from midnight to 8am.
The new contract seems to think that having work 8 hours of today by the time I leave in the morning tomorrow will count as a day off!!!
Just one of the many things that are unfair & unsafe in the contract that is being imposed.

Guest debate: The imposition of the new junior doctor contract
Kbob · 19/02/2016 04:28

Sorry I mean they say today is a day off!!
See tired Drs make mistakes....