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Guest debate: The imposition of the new junior doctor contract

324 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 18/02/2016 16:15

Last Thursday, I cried for our NHS.

I was listening to Jeremy Hunt explain why he had to impose a hugely unpopular contract on doctors. Just 24 hours earlier I had been buoyed by public support on the picket lines, and now here I was, left frustrated and incredulous at the government's action. Despite the Royal Colleges disagreeing with imposition, despite multiple demonstrations and overwhelming polls demonstrating public support against an unsafe contract, the government decided to unilaterally impose a contract that would supposedly allow them to fulfil their party manifesto. Even the Patients Association, usually staunch adversaries of doctors, spoke out against the government's imposition, calling it 'unacceptable'.

We keep hearing the Conservative Party pledge to deliver a 'truly seven day NHS'. This sounds like a lovely idea, which in theory every doctor would support (and, of course, we do already provide a seven day service, routinely working nights and weekends). However, without the necessary extra funding and resources it is frankly dangerous. The government has failed to fully examine the effect this contract will have on patient safety or staffing levels, focusing instead solely on how they can stretch a service without spending more money.

This was never about politics for the doctors. We are driven by concerns for the safety of our patients and the NHS workforce; we want to preserve the NHS for future generations. It is becoming increasingly laughable to hear the Conservative Party call themselves the party of the NHS. Our own Health Secretary refuses to engage and debate with junior doctors. Our Prime Minister has stayed eerily silent throughout this whole dispute, despite presiding over the first doctors' strike in four decades.

Our rotas are already under-filled. Many specialities face retention problems as more doctors leave to work overseas having struggled to maintain a safe work/life balance in the NHS. This contract will see many more doctors resign in despair, leaving a thin workforce spread ever thinner across seven days. We are being asked to do more for less and this is breaking a generation of doctors who are already on their knees with the continued underfunding of the NHS. Currently, one in two junior doctors chooses not to continue with their speciality training. The rate of mental health problems in doctors is worryingly high; it is only likely to get worse. All of this coupled with less robust safeguards on working hours will inevitably result in patient safety being compromised.

I never thought that I would have to strike as a doctor, but I know that any short-term disruption to my patients will be outweighed by the damage this contract will have on patients in the long term.

The government is set on changing the meaning of a weekend for all NHS workers, starting with us, the junior doctors. I have been a junior doctor for five years and have a little boy who is 20 months old. Under this contract, I could be forced to work every other weekend and more nights, spending more time away from my son. My husband is also a medic – many people marry within the profession – and we're already worried about juggling childcare under the new contract. If we end up working alternate weekends, we won't have any weekends together, but if we're in sync we'll have to find someone to look after our son during that time. We already struggle to arrange childcare to cover our night shifts, and the proposed weekend hours will only put a further strain on our finances, and our relationship.

The NHS is not perfect, but it is there for us in our time of need. Speak to any doctor and they will name you 101 things which need improving in the service before embarking on the alleged 'truly seven day NHS'. Our accident and emergency departments are crumbling under the weight of admissions; our mental health services are letting down the most vulnerable people in our society. Our GPs account for 90% of all NHS patient contacts and yet receive only 9% of the funding; our hospitals are filled with patients who we cannot discharge safely because funding to community services has again been slashed.

The government has used its nuclear option and we have been left reeling. We will slowly discover what the fallout will be for you - our patients - and for us - your doctors. Stand with us: your junior doctors need you more than ever.

OP posts:
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Lanchester · 20/02/2016 16:56

JuniorDrPaola. Today at 13:56

thank you for that interesting link. It shows that the Francis report found that 17.3% of NHS whitleblowers get victimised for speaking out.

Jeremy Hunt was trying to encourage whitleblowing AND protect whistleblowers.

Presumably you support JEREMY in that ?

ABetaDad1 · 20/02/2016 16:59

If the UK votes for Brexit the locums flying in from EU countries may no longer be available then. I just wonder how the NHS in England is going to cope.

I have a Dr friend from years ago at university. He is a consultant neurologist now. He explained why he chose neurology.

a) you cant kill anyone being a neurologist unless you are extremely stupid.

b) you never get calls in the middle of the night.

c) we dont know a lot about nerve pain so its an open and exciting field

if I were junior Dr I would pick neurology. I would avoid A&E, obstetrics or indeed anything else with long hours and risk of killing patients. I would especially avoid them if I wasn't gong to get paid more for long hours and the risk of killing patients.

Its simple economics.

GColdtimer · 20/02/2016 17:10

So lanchester comes back to the thread but not to answer any questions. Hmm

JuniorDrPaola · 20/02/2016 17:11

Like I said Lanchester Junior Doctors do not have whistleblowing protection but thank you for reading the link.

WorriedForNHS · 20/02/2016 17:24

Why dont Junior Doctors have whistleblowing protection? Surely that is key?

NameChangeEr · 20/02/2016 17:27

Those 2 rota's posted by nosleepginger and whothefuckissimon are actually being generous with the days off. IN reality working a weekend, you start work on Monday, then work for 12 days straight finishing with the following Friday, have the weekend off and repeat. The bonus is some of those days will be 13 hour shifts.
It is common for doctors to use their annual leave just to take a day off in that stretch/after 5 days straight working 13 hour shifts.

Anything that means you believe you aren't safe unless you take a days annual leave to make your rota workable is crazy.

We just need more doctors, not making the ones currently working spread themselves thinner.

Lanchester · 20/02/2016 17:43

JuniorDrPaola. Today at 17:12

So you support Jeremy Hunt in his efforts to encourage and protect whistleblowers ? Its a yes or no really.
I think maybe you DO support JEREMY in that, but you can't bring yourself to say so.

LineyReborn · 20/02/2016 17:45

Whistle blowers either are or aren't legally protected in the here and now.

It's black and white, really.

MillyLondon · 20/02/2016 18:02

Lanchester, I find your posts Ill informed and naive. Are you a tory politician? Wink

I think you'll find that legally 54000 junior doctors have no right to whistleblowing protection. There are current legal proceedings agains NHSEmoloyers who are fighting the case..
www.54000doctors.org

I'm not a junior doctor... But fully support them.

MillyLondon · 20/02/2016 18:05

Ps JH is not supporting a change to the legalities regarding whistleblowing with JDs so it's literally impossible to support him in that aim.

Rb1976 · 20/02/2016 18:08

Could Mr Gummer also explain why, given this government's insistence that the EWTD (European work time directive) will ensure that junior doctors won't work excessive hours- why have the conservatives tabled a bill to exempt all doctors from the EWTD? A bill that passed its first reading without a commons debate.

WorriedForNHS · 20/02/2016 18:15

Well reading up on the New statesman article on the Chris Day case and doing some digging it seems that junior docs are not currently protected from whistleblowing, unlike other doctors, and the government have been fiercely opposing Chris Day's action that would give Junior Doctors a legal employment status that would provide them with this protection. I am not a lawyer so cant claim to understand the ins and outs. Perhaps one of the doctors posting here can explain more? Pretty shocking if true. If they dont have whistleblowing protection (unlike other docs), their safeguards are being removed, and they are having a contract imposed they say is unsafe for patients, how are they supposed to sound the alarm if things go wrong? We need some answers here, because this looks pretty scandalous to me.

LineyReborn · 20/02/2016 18:24

Indeed. And JH can stick his 'efforts' up his arse - he is the Secretary of State for fuck's sake with executive power.

He can Do Something. But chooses not to.

JuniorDrPaola · 20/02/2016 19:01

Thank you WorriedfortheNHS those are exactly our concerns at the moment! Dr Day's case highlights a lot of issues with regards to our training and who our actual employer is. At the moment, the DoH, the deaneries and trusts say we are not employed by them and we would have to work for a particular hospital for 2 years to be covered under normal whistleblowing protection BUT because we rotate hospitals every year, we do not have protection as highlighted by this case and many other drs'.

At the moment the government is using taxpayers money to have this case thrown out and it is fundamentally important that it is heard and reviewed as we will have no safeguards in place should concerns need to be raised.

ABetaDad1 · 20/02/2016 20:17

DrPaola - who is that orders you to rotate to this or that hospital each year?

The entity that has the power to order you to move your place of employment (i.e. the hospital) is clearly your employer as a matter of actual practical fact. Your employer is not determined by which building you work in.

Frankly at this rate every Junior Dr would be better self employed as a locum being paid by the hour working the hours that suit them.

Lanchester · 20/02/2016 20:20

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/11/nhs-culture-must-change-to-protect-whistleblowers-official-review&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjclP3gk4fLAhWJzxQKHYFbBFwQFggQMAE&usg=AFQjCNFL96bjoX6YHyLJPrIqOk-aedT7HA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?q=www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/11/nhs-culture-must-change-to-protect-whistleblowers-official-review&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjclP3gk4fLAhWJzxQKHYFbBFwQFggQMAE&usg=AFQjCNFL96bjoX6YHyLJPrIqOk-aedT7HA

Lanchester · 20/02/2016 20:29

So the link just posted was from the Guardian newspaper saying that Jeremy Hunt wanted legislation to protect whistleblowers.
I think the BMA and junior doctors have been taking up a lot of his time since then though.

longjumping · 20/02/2016 20:32

I am not saying doctors should not receive better pay. I am saying they are being dishonest in not complaining about it directly and covering it up as " save the NHS" and " patient care".
It is obvious that this thread is mainly doctors all complaining because they are no longer at the top of the pecking order. All the bright young things with good A levels ......they chose to study medicine....and now they are complaining
They are public servants and have shown their true worth by going on strike....so much for "patient care" .
A lot of people voted for this government....I am one of them....those voters are concerned about waste in the public services, and there is a lot of it.

I have had a lot of experience of appalling care in hospitals and none of these doctors gave a toss about the care of my friend....not one of them lost their job.

WhoAteAllTheDinosaurs · 20/02/2016 21:16
Hmm
Ambroxide · 20/02/2016 21:54

I am not a doctor. I am not related to any doctors. I don't even know any doctors apart from one bloke who I was at university with nearly thirty years ago and who I have seen about twice since then. I'm complaining because the NHS is an amazing and beautiful thing and I do not want to see it weakened or devalued.

We have one of the best healthcare systems in the world for one of the lowest costs. Why on earth would anyone want to see that thrown away?

Doctors have not asked for a pay rise and do not expect one. Why on earth do you think this is about that? They just don't want their pay cut and still to be expected to do more work for the same or less money. It is massively important to protect doctors' work/life balance as they are the people who are taking life or death decisions every single day and they cannot do that effectively if they are overworked and underpaid. I honestly cannot see why this is so hard to understand for you.

ChatEnOeuf · 20/02/2016 22:36

Another JD here, delighted to see the support being offered. Thank you.

I currently work a 3:9 rota, that has 7 of the slots filled. Every month I'm asked to help out with evening or weekend shifts. I don't tend to agree as I'm exhausted as it is. To use my (pre-allocated) annual leave to do some nights. That will only get worse if this new contract is adopted by our trust.

I worked nights this week. Thinking of the times that care was delayed, the reasons were amongst the following:
Blood tests take longer to reach the lab as there are fewer collections overnight. They also take longer to get results because fewer technicians are working in the labs.
There is only one person doing x rays - I have to get him to come to our unit as our patients are too sick to come to him. This takes ages, especially when lots of wards need him.
Our nurses. They are wonderful, but so overstretched it's dangerous.
Some tests are simply not done at night.
None of this is improved by this contract.

One of the striking points of the new rotas I've seen, is the total disregard for continuity of care. Especially with these random single night shifts. This is neither good for staff or patients. I also have no idea how my childcare would work with these proposals.

JuniorDrPaola · 20/02/2016 22:44

Abetadad1 Our deanery tells us which hospital to rotate to. In the recent preliminary hearing the Deanery argued in court that junior doctors do not have the right to protection from victimisation if they whistleblow. We are still awaiting the reserved judgement on this case.

The Health Secretary allowed Health Education England to continue their case against Dr Day and he granted a special order to student nurses providing protection but refused to do the same for doctors in training despite being aware of this case and many others.

Until an order providing the same whistleblowing rights as any other healthcare worker is granted to Junior Doctors I do not believe that Jeremy Hunt is serious about protecting everyone from
victimisation following whistleblowing.

This is Dr Chris Day's website which explains his journey to the current hearing www.54000doctors.org/index.html

Ambroxide · 20/02/2016 22:45

I am so thankful for everything that you and other 'junior' doctors do. I think the terminology is a bit damaging tbh. Those of us who have taken the time to educate ourselves realise that 'junior' doctors are actually people who have our lives in their hands. But it sort of sounds like you're not quite qualified or something, rather than that you haven't actually reached the very highest rung yet. I suspect there are lots of people who think junior doctors are like still medical students or something.

JuniorDrPaola · 20/02/2016 22:53

Completely agree Ambroxide. By calling us Junior the government have infantilised doctors. We don't use that term to describe ourselves, we're either Foundation Trainees, Senior House Officers or Senior Registrars until we reach Consultancy or GP.

Terryscombover · 20/02/2016 23:01

To all "junior" Drs.

Please know many many of us voted these bastards in. We are all sorry. We will never vote for them again. No one can quite believe what utter arseholes they actually are.

We are sorry however we do believe you that this is an excuse to make you work more for less. We do not believe Jeremy bloody Hunt!!!!!

Keep going. Please. We need you. We appreciate you.