Amnesty's proposal to legalise prostitution is wrong - we can't let men who exploit women off the hook

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

An Amnesty International document leaked this week argues for the legalisation of prostitution. It says that approaches like the Swedish Model – which criminalise buying sex, but legalise selling it – are guilty of "devaluing" prostituted women and "criminalising the contexts in which they live". In essence, the proposals say that most women who become prostitutes make a rational, informed choice – effectively , that they enter into a relationship of equals with the men who purchase their bodies.

I’m really disappointed in Amnesty. I'm a long term supporter of the Swedish Model and, for me, the idea that we should simply accept prostitution as a fact of life is totally wrong. It is particularly irresponsible at a time when it's being reported that austerity is driving many women – and in particular single parents – into prostitution.

I believe Amnesty have got it wrong. Firstly, I don’t believe prostitution is, in most cases, "consensual sex between adults", as the policy document describes it. The idea that women who go into prostitution are exercising 'free choice' just doesn’t stack up. Abuse and lack of alternatives are almost always a factor - many enter the sex trade young, and come from backgrounds fraught with suffering and abuse. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but, all things being equal, I believe most women don’t 'choose', in the true sense, to become prostitutes.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea there can be any real equality between a woman who sells her body and a man who buys it. As Amnesty admits, the conditions of the sex trade are "imperfect" to say the least. British 'prostitute review' sites like 'Punternet' – as well as the male-led 'Hands off my whore' campaign in France – show what so-called clients think of the women they buy sex from.

A large proportion of prostitutes say they experience aggression while working, and nearly seven in ten suffer the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. The dynamic between buyers and sellers of sex ranges from the disrespectful to the downright abusive – but there’s almost always an inequality at play.

Of course, there'll always be some who say that prostitution is "the oldest trade" and that there's not much we can do about it. But this argument is as untrue as it’s depressing. In Sweden, for example, stopping the purchase of sex changes social attitudes, making men less likely to purchase sex and more likely to support prosecutions for others - and there’s no reason why this can’t happen in the UK. Amnesty need to aim much higher. We can do better, surely, than just make the exploitation of women better regulated.

The role of charities like Amnesty should be to lift standards up, not drive them down. Amnesty are supposed to be an ambitious organisation. They shouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and say "c’est la vie". Over the years they've done an indispensable job in ending exploitation, improving human rights, and reducing inequalities. Legalising prostitution runs counter to all these things. It has turned Germany into a "giant Teutonic brothel", as the Economist puts it - and, according to Equality Now, has "empowered pimps and traffickers" in Amsterdam.

Women at risk or in economic need require more opportunities and better protection – not to be told their only option is a demeaning last resort. For the sake of women and mothers everywhere I sincerely hope Amnesty will rethink their position.

[horsetowater]

Numpty - Migsy said she started doing it because she was desperate.

She is clearly still in that mindset even though her landscape has shifted. She has normalised it and the lure of financial security is going to keep it that way.

I'd like to hear her reasons about why she feels she can't stop.

[NumptyNameChange]

i thought she made clear that it was because she liked doing few hours and making lots of money and found it 'fun' to be fucked by men whilst getting paid for it?

[NumptyNameChange]

ergo all this nonsense about trafficking and drug addiction and exploitation and human rights and the reinforcing of misogyny and inequality and.... ad infinitum was trivial not my problem nonsense and shouldn't in any way impact on what she wants.

[Beachcomber]

You know the argument for total decriminalization basically comes down to;

"prostitution is dangerous"

You see it over and over again. It's dangerous for women to work alone, it's dangerous for women to work the streets, it's dangerous so women need pimps agencies.

BUT, of course it is a job like any other and everyone loves it. AND, it has to exist because otherwise what would really desperate poverty stricken women do for money otherwise eh??

The cognitive dissonance we are expected to engage in is quite something.

[NumptyNameChange]

however she is demanding to be treated as someone with agency who chooses and loves what she does. i'm therefore treating her as such, taking her word for her reality which is all i can do really without infantilising her.

then again if, as one desperately hopes, she comes to see it differently and comes to feel she didn't enjoy it and actually forces x, y and z made her need to believe that etc i'll be here to support her and work through that with her.

right now though she is where she is with it - that may change, it may not, she may be deluding herself, she may genuinely love her 'job'. she's a grown up and i have to interact with who she says she is not what i'd like to project on her.

[NumptyNameChange]

much like if the thief had an epiphany, realised it was x, y and z that happened to him as a child that made him think that way, realised the damage his behaviour was having upon others and himself and wanted to change i'd sit and have a drink with him and help him sort through it. at the point where he's saying nah, i just love it, it's an easy life and i don't give a fuck about how it affects others there's not much for me to engage with.

[horsetowater]

The point is that Migsy started doing it out of desperation which she admitted herself. Everything she says after that, all the justification and reasoned argument is simply her head trying to normalise the trauma that she's gone through.

She's told us why she does it (more Stockholm Syndrome type self-talk - she has to love the job or her whole world will turn upside down).

But she hasn't said there is any reason why she can't stop - like for instance that she owes someone a lot of money, or she's being forced at gunpoint.

[grimbletart]

Migsy's two statements

First
I chose this because I enjoy sex, I work on my own terms, it's fun and very well paid.

Then
When I started it was out of desperation.

I am struggling to square that circle unless Migsy is rationalising.

[Beachcomber]

I don't see why I should be forced out of a job that is doing nothing to anyone else.

The thing is though, it isn't 'nothing to do with anyone else' . Prostitution is about a gendered issue as you can get - and where a society stands on prostitution has an impact on how its citizens perceive gender roles and relations.

No woman/man is an island.

Of course this is why the pimp lobbies try to neutralize the language so much with market speak; sex worker, seller, buyer, client, service, managers, etc. They are trying to invisibleize that fact that prostitution is a manifestation of female subjugation and that it perpetuates female subjugation.

And prostitution and trafficking cannot be separated. They are not separate issues. Just as prostitution and incest cannot be separated and prostitution and rape cannot be separated and prostitution and child abuse cannot be separated. And prostitution cannot be separated from substance abuse, poverty, the feminization of poverty, motherhood, homelessness, domestic violence, flaws in the care system, etc. Prostitution also cannot be separated from race issues and colonialism with women of colour and indigenous women being over-represented and vulnerable to trafficking.

[horsetowater]

You could compare Migsy's job to being a binman. Most people don't leave school wanting to be a binman/binwoman and some would find it degrading. They end up needing to make ends meet and in 'desperation' find this is a job that suits their hours / their personal attributes.

But the difference between being forced into being a binperson and being forced into prostitution is that there is an emotional violation that has taken place that has nothing to do with the physical work, or the perception that it's beneath them or not what their peers expect.

Anyone can empty your bins, but having sex with someone is something that you have to earn via some kind of relationship or an emotional commitment. You can't replace that with money. It's not a transaction.

[horsetowater]

Grimbletart her voice changed when I asked her why she started. This is the key - there has to be a form of normalisation before women do prostitution. There is always an element of force somewhere, way back.

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

For those of you who may not have seen it yet, we have a webchat tomorrow (Tuesday) with Amnesty's UK Director on this.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

I don't understand how someone can start working as a prostitute because they like sex.

The pros of sex are usually: Being close with someone you fancy, and you know, getting pleasure and an orgasm or two. Which prostitution is not about.

[FloraFox]

People who say they go into prostitution because they like sex or were giving it away for free have often suffered abuse either in childhood or as an adult. Their connection with enjoyable, autonomous sex is often broken. I don't believe you need to have an emotional connection with someone to have good sex but you do need to have personal autonomy throughout the sexual experience, to do what you want to do. Selling your autonomy by taking money to do whatever the man wants to do is not sex.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Selling your autonomy by taking money to do whatever the man wants to do is not sex.

Agree, "sex" is something mutual that you do because it feels damn nice.

[Beachcomber]

Yes, and prostitution used to be justified in madonna/whore terms - it was important to have a group of women set aside as whores to let men have their sexy because otherwise they would go around raping 'respectable' women (AKA other men's wives).

Nowadays it isn't very PC to use that justification of prostitution, the liberals don't like it, so now the spin is that prostitution is a job/an act of agency/an option it is important for women people to have/sex work/a choosy choice/yadda yadda....

Prostitution has been postmoderinized for the liberals and the third wavers who rationalize social injustice and structural oppression as freedom rather than fighting for actual freedom.

We are really in the shit what with the erosion of abortion rights in the US, Spain and lack of abortion rights in many other countries (where prostitution is rife by the fucking way liberals). Plus the Supreme Court ruling in Canada which looks to be decrimming pimping over there, and now this shit from Amnesty fing International of all people.

All this is why we are so not post-feminism. Until women have real power and real representation we are vulnerable and dependent on the goodwill of the male ruling class. And, of course, they are less likely to indulge our uppity ideas of human status and equivalent freedom if the (male dominated) economy gets worse.

Imagine a UK with decriminalized prostitution, a broke welfare state, high unemployment and a failing economy.

[Beachcomber]

Thanks Rowan.

[migsy86]

Not read all comments. I think it all depends on how you view sex. I don't see it as a deep emotional connection, it's just fun.

I too have been raped and when people compare rape with sex work I find that very offensive, it's not comparable at all. Regardless of me getting paid I give 100% consent to my clients.

[migsy86]

How is whether a woman has suffered rape got anything to do with her future career?