Come and talk to us (and gransnetters) about the MIL/DIL relationship

[KatMumsnet]

Hello

As lots of you will know, we have a sister site, Gransnet, which celebrated its third birthday recently. And we've been having a think about topics that MNers and GNers have in common, or might be able to share info on in a useful, supportive and hopefully interesting way.

Last month we collaborated with Gransnet on this thread (also here) about the perimenopause, which lots seemed to find useful.

So we thought we'd take a step into a slightly more controversial area (at least according to 1970s comedians, and a few threads MN): the relationships between daughters-in-law and mothers-in-law - and top tips for how women can work together, inter-generationally, for the benefit of each other and for the DCs/GCs.

If you have a great relationship with your MIL, what advice would you pass on to others for achieving this? What's the one (constructive ) suggestion you'd make to anyone who finds their MIL a bit difficult?

If you could really speak your mind (perhaps you already can), what one thing would you say to your MIL - good, bad or indifferent? What does she already do that's amazingly helpful or joy-bringing or quietly constructive? And/or, what's the fly in the ointment?

And if you find your MIL difficult, and your relationship with her has broken down (or is close to doing so), is there anything either of you could do or say to start building bridges? Or are some relationships best left alone?

If you are yourself a MIL, what's it like - and how do you keep your relationship with your DIL on an even keel (if you do)?

We should stress we're not trying to foment discord here; studies show that grandparents en masse give up huge amounts of time to help with childcare and/or give financial and emotional support to their children and their partners, and lots of parents know the joy of handing over their precious darlings to the grandparents and running away having a few hours/days off.

And we're not excluding fathers-in-law or sons-in-law, either - as ever, feel free to tell us about those relationships too. But of course the DIL/MIL demographic is likely to emerge strongly from a MN/GN crossover. And we thought it would be interesting to break through the pop culture perception of MIL/DIL relationships and see how you think the land really lies (in a completely unscientific way). Of course, you may even think the whole issue is hugely overstated, and that millions of DILs and MILs all over the country are just quietly getting on with enjoying their relationships and running their lives.

There will be a parallel thread running on Gransnet about the same issue, and we'll be copying and pasting comments between the two - so if there's something you'd like to ask a community of MILs, now's your chance. And of course do feel free to get yourself a a Gransnet log-in and pop over to say hello.

I have struggled with my MIL of late. I always felt that we had a good relationship, but lately some of the things she's said have made me want to step back. I get the feeling that she just puts up with me. This makes me a bit sad, but I suppose that's that.

I do love her though, she's very selfless and they'd do anything for us as a family. I don't think we would be where we are without their support. I'll admit that recently they've been going through a real bad patch in terms of family, so maybe my expectations of her are flawed.

I feel very blessed to have a lovely soon to be mil, she is kind, thoughtful and very easy to get on with, I really enjoy spending time with her. She has welcomed my 2 dc into the fold and makes a real effort to connect with them, they love her very much.

I feel sad for the years of abuse that she experienced with my Dp's xw, I have told both her and my soon to be dh that I am aghast at the fact that he never stood up for his dm, he however was abused too by narcissistic xw so I guess he was always walking on egg shells.

Still all of that is now in the past for both of them, they are now mending the years if damage that had occurred within themselves and together with regards to their relationship.

We are looking forward to mil moving nearer to us, I can't wait! She is such a fiesty and thinking out of the box woman, I have huge amounts of respect for her.

Ps happy belated birthday to gransnet

I have a truly lovely MIL. She is interested and involved in our lives without being intrusive. I can chat easily to her and feel very comfortable in her company with or without DH. She looks after the DC every second Friday in term time which I love as it allows them to have a relationship of their own with her which I think is important. (FIL has recently retired and is now there too, which is even better). She even sometimes does the ironing which we really appreciate, but never expect. She bakes wonderful cakes and sometimes does a "cake drop" when we are out as a surprise to come home to. They live a 20 min drive away in the opposite direction from my parents.
For my part I try very hard to keep her involved in our lives. DH works long hours and isn't the best at keeping in touch. I try to send her texts and photos about the DC in the same way I do my own mum and fill her in on the things that DH doesn't always remember to.
If anything, I wish she felt comfortable to be more involved, particularly when the DC were younger and I was off on maternity leave. We have my PIL round often for dinner etc but they wait to be invited and I wish they would drop in more. I feel she missed out on simply sitting holding her grandchildren when they were babies because she didn't want to overstep and that makes me a bit .
She comments on how busy our lives are and hints that's why she doesn't pop in, but I wish she'd believe me when I tell her we are never too busy for her!
I realise I am very lucky, especially as my own DM's relationship with her MIL is so strained, but that's maybe why I make more of an effort.

This is a fascinating thread for me; I often feel down that my relationship with my MIL and SIL isn't better. They are both dominant, overbearing women who I struggle to deal with - and I hate the feeling that I've got to put up with their games for the rest of my life. It puts a strain on our marriage but now at 10yrs plus I've realised like Goldmandra said that I can't make an effort any more than is necessary. They have never rung me particularly, orchestrating what they want to do re seeing our children, via my husband. I have tried over the years to do what I can to alter this but I'm obviously not up to the role of welcomed and accepted DIL. I try hard not to blame myself but at other times I think I have just been unlucky.

The theme of this thread seems to be that imperfect MIL/DIL relationships result from being critical, judgemental, interfering, unaccepting. Someone on gransnet said: I never say 'oh I haven't seen you for 3 weeks.' Good for you, unfortunately this is how every visit starts with my MIL. I work and juggle so when kids visit without me, it's 'would you have come round if wife wasn't working?' And then SIL rings hub to bash us with more of the same. It's such a shame things aren't easier and I take my hat off to those good MILs on here. You can make such a difference.

I quite like my MIL in general but she feels the need to regularly attempt weird power plays, which are extremely annoying. She obviously thinks she is being so ingeniously subtle that none of us will notice what she is trying to manoeuvre us into until it is "too late" to say no. Of course we do notice, dh or I will say no, and then she will sulk for a few weeks.

It always ends with a conversation along the lines of "But MIL, why didn't you speak to us before booking the holiday, to check we could get the time off work?"
"I was just trying to arrange a nice surprise, but you never appreciate it"
sulk sulk sulk

"But MIL, why didn't you mention that you were planning to bring enough food for the entire weekend with you to our house? We've done a big shop, too, and the fridge is already full."
"You never appreciate us trying to help"
sulk sulk sulk

It grates because occasionally they will do something the normal way, and tell us in advance and we all have a lovely time, and we are very appreciative, so the "you never appreciate" thing is just a defensive reaction to being caught out.

I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't all done with an agenda, such as wanting to bring her dog on holiday with us, when dh can't bear their dog and neither of us think it safe to be around our child. Or wanting to play the matriarch and cook for everyone, even at my house. I have no problem with this but I object to wasting our time and money on fresh food for the same weekend!

If she could just control the urge, we'd get on much better and she'd see more of her only grandchild. As it is, spending time with her is tiring because there's this feeling that she's going to spring the next surprise at any moment. I find myself making less and less effort to see her, which is a shame because apart from the bonkers control issues, she's actually pretty good company.

My MIL is a witch. When my mother died she said "well we all have to just get on with it" this was just a few weeks after and in response to the fact that I had forgotten a birthday. When I apologised she then said "oh well, so you don't want me to see the children" she put the phone down twice and when I rang back the second time to make amends, she said "And what has mu son ever done for me" Horrid little gnome of a woman who is eaten up with bitterness.

I don't have any advice but during my pregnancy and when ds was born my MIL took the place of my mother ( who has dementia and can't remember she has a Grandson) by being excited and supportive and interested and enthusiastic. Sadly she died not long after ds was born. I really miss her.

The trouble with the MIL/DIL relationship is the baggage you both bring. In my case, we did everything with my mum's DP who lived a long way away. We went to them for Xmas, went on holidays with them, they came for birthdays and Easter. Dad's DP who were local, did nothing with us at all, but were able to visit my cousin regularly once she came along (DD'd DD).

I grew up with the unspoken but demonstrated idea that your mum's parents are the real GPs. I was very young, very naive and honestly thought that it didn't matter that I didn't like MIL because I wouldn't have to have anything to do with her. I wish somebody had made the effort to talk to me about it beforehand.

MIL, OTOH, didn't have a MIL herself, as FIL's mum died young. MIL lived near her DP and saw them all the time. She had 3 DSs and no DD.

DH is the youngest of 3, and the other 2 were already married by the time he met me, so there was a pattern established in their family. But it was not the pattern I was used to. MIL interfered with the wedding arrangements so much I almost called it off. We ended up living near them and hours away from my parents. They would pop in unexpectedly and just sit there, and expect to be waited on. MIL has zero conversation, so it is all very embarrassing.

Then we had DC1 and it all just ratcheted up and up. It wasn't my/our baby but her GDD. DH has no spine and would agree with anything she wanted to keep the peace. We had years of hell. All the time we had a baby (we had 4 in quick succession) they would be on the doorstep, but once the DC were older and could answer back they just didn't bother.

We moved away 5 years ago and the relief that they could no longer just pop in was incredible. We should have done it years ago .

I have a lovely, kind, generous, caring MIL, but boy have we had our moments!

She and I are totally different. Her family live in each others pockets, mine talk to each other every few weeks. She likes to put everyone in a box and tell them what they are like. I don't like to be boxed. She doesn't like making decisions, I don't like sheep type people.

But over the last 23 years we've learnt to rub along together pretty well. Mostly by accepting that we come from completely different ways of looking at life and just getting around it as best we can. At times it has been hard though, and holidays together work well for a week, but no more.

I think the problem is you come from different families and the difference between what is normal can be huge. Negotiating that depends on you both being willing to do some compromising on each other.

Having been very naughty (LOL) and been married twice I have a different perspective perhaps. As I am, I believe the same person, mostly a laid back person who believes in 'live and let live' and mostly just want to get on with living my life and being happy. I also believe that when you marry your family extends to take on your DH's family as much as you can, even more so if you have children. Cue my first marriage, my DMIL was IMO very controlling, very jealous of my relationship with DH. I also felt like my new family where the only one that mattered and I should somehow 'cut off' from my existing family. In essence, I guess it would be like marrying royalty! A good example of this which sticks in my mind about how controlling she was is on a meal out in a restaurant SHE would tell everyone where to sit. I was in the middle, not quite number one and two like her to DSs but not as bad as my DSIS. Ha ha! So I won't bore you with the divorce (his choice not mine) fast forward a couple of years and I met my now DH. Is it a coincidence that he is lovely, accepts me and my family 100%, and I have never been happier. And so is my DMIL. I met my her 12 years ago now. She is the opposite of my first one. Lovely, kind, supportive, if I am honest more of a friend than a MIL. I love spending time with her and probably see more of her as I work part time to my DH full time and also as my DM lives overseas I guess that might have an influence. If she wasn't my DMIL she would be a good friend. I think the essence of my post is it depends on personality, she is like me I think, I hope. I also think that as we love deeply the same three people, DH, DSs we have a lot in common x

My MIL relationship is okayish.

She clearly puts BIL and his family first and will drop us like a brick to spend time with them. So I have stopped bothering with her and don't invite her round or to childrens plays etc (of course I'll tell her if she asks but I used to always tell her once I knew) I just got bored of the letting us down.

DH is very easy going and is used to being put 2nd, BIL has a pretty "glam" career. Thing is now though, his career is starting to fade (tis a youthful one) and DH has flown at work these last few years, so it'll be interesting to see how things pan out.

She has hurt me a lot with her thoughtless way with us, she will admit to DH that she doesn't bother with us with things like "it's ok, you have peppers mum and dad and they are great" (my parents are fantastic and always there but not interfering, but it's not the point)

The DCs are getting older and they won't be bothered with grandparents soon, she will regret this, I keep telling myself!!!

Unfortunately my MIL puts great store in the saying - a son is a son until he takes a wife, a daughter is a daughter all her life.

Hence I am just another woman who as taken one of her sons away from her and who knows nothing about raising children. I am civil, but our relationship would be so much better if I would just be a good little girl and do as I'm told.

In the decade that we have lived overseas she has phoned twice. DH calls her weekly.

I am in a fairly unusual position of having a grand child younger than my child so I can see both sides of the mil dil relationship when children come along.
My mil made the huge mistake of forgetting that I'd had a horrible c section and thus was recovering from major surgery.
We asked that we have a few quiet days after we came home but she engineered staying too long after a hospital visit so that they ended up leaving hospital with us and coming home and sitting in my house asking about dinner when we really just wanted it to be me dh the new baby and my dd who was 9.
It marked the beginning of a fairly difficult relationship which has taken 3 years to re build. We get on well now but it's a shame she ruined a happy time for us as well as them.

When my dgs was born I was very careful to do as my dil and ds wanted and respect that this was predominantly their special time and not mine.
I was careful to offer help but not expect them to take it and only give advice if asked.
I adore my dil, she is like a good friend and we do lots together with our 3 and 4 year olds and share childcare too.

Sorry I meant to say my dgs is actually older than my child.

Ex Mils

Try to remember at the end of the day the ex is her child no matter how much you hate him. There's no point in continuously going over his faults, truth be know she probably knows anyway but feels a duty to defend him.

Don't use the kids to spite her if ex is being a dick.

Lay down some ground rules and stick to them. Don't discuss parents relationship with the kids etc

I get on fine with my ex mil. She will help me if i need help, takes my dc on holiday and watches them overnight so i can work.

Over on Gransnet...

Ivanova5 has said:

"I haven't got a grandchild yet - so I'm a bit sneaky coming on here. He's due in October. An I excited? No. Am I sad - very. My DIL apparently hates us. I only know there's a baby on the way through FB! I have tried to contact my son, who now ignores us in favour of his new family (MIL an SILS) I can't seem to get anyone to talk to us - the last time we saw son or DIL was at their wedding last year! (and that's a whole other story!) I was at a fair last week and saw some lovely Barbar the elephant things - and I was getting my purse out when I thought - no point, he wont be given them - so, I guess I'm here because surely there's someone else out there in a similar situation?"

J52 has said:

"I have read all the posts with interest, life is very diverse!

I am tolerated by my DILs. I can offer nothing that they do not already have - baby sitters, Grandparents for their children, friends, family etc.

I have tried to use my skills to make clothes and things for the babies; -accepted, not enthused about and never worn. I no longer do this.

This is the situation, no major fall outs, we see the GCs reasonably frequently for a couple of hours, play and make things and adore their company. That's just the way things are, accept and get on with our own lives. x"

Lilygran has said:

"My DMiL was always absolutely lovely to me. I wish I had deserved it in the early years of marriage. However, we never had a cross word because it wasn't in her nature to be critical or argue. I'm doing my best to live up to her example and fortunately, both my DDiL are such lovely women, it's not too demanding. I agree very much with several posters, one who said you both love the same man and that should give you something in common, and another who said MiL/DiL problems are really DS problems. And the poster who said you should keep your mouth shut and that applies to complaining to your DS as well!"

Stansgran has said:

"My MIL was widowed quite early on in our marriage and felt that my DH should take over her late husbands support of her. I got angry phone calls saying that she supposed my DH was cutting my mother's lawn or that she had been invited to this or that function and felt he should take her. We were at a critical stage in DH's career when he was studying for major exams and working very long hours with a young family and when cutting the grass in his own garden or going out for a drink with his own wife was very unlikely. She never accepted that I was doing my best for our family and at her funeral I was kindly told that she had always told X that she would have preferred her as her DIL. I'm surprised that it never occurred to her that I may have felt the same. As a MIL I think I have many failings but I think I get by with the SILs. I have the DGC to stay as often as they want and take them to nice places. But it's a close run thing at times especially as my idea of healthy grub is not always theirs. No not sweets but roasts and casseroles ."

@MardyBra

Feel free to edit me for profanity if you quote me on GN btw Kat

We do allow swearing... We have the same forum/talk guidelines as you do!

I have just become a mil to a sil.
Seriously, any tips?
Everything is fine so far.
But I do feel that I dont want to become that sort of mil.

I do have the added complication that my dd and sil live quite a way away, so visits will involve staying over for a couple of days.
Which I am thinking is a different prospect to just visiting for an evening or just popping in during the daytime when he may be at work.

My relationship with my own mil is fab. So long as I dont tread on her toes over a couple of things, we get on great.

I think that communication is key.

There are numerous threads on MN where DIL are trying to guess their MIL's motivations and next moves because they can't actually talk it through with each other.

If you openly say that you aren't going to make suggestions for fear of interfering so could they please ask if they think you can help, they won't assume that you don't care or can't be bothered.

If you offer support in any way, say specifically that you're trying to help and they must feel free to say no or suggest something different if they would rather.

If you'd like to take your DGC out somewhere, ask when they think they will feel ready for you to do that so they know you aren't desperate to rip their newborn from his mother's arms and drag him off to show all your friends.

Just keep talking and asking.

I guess I need to start reading the MIL threads!
I have always stayed well clear up to know.

Think I will print out your suggestions Goldmandra.

I am a really new MIL[2 weeks!]
Up to now, all I have said is that if I ever upset him in the next 20 or 30 years, he is to tell me and I expect we can sort it out.
fwiw, he seems a very reasonable sil.

@ ivanova5 - what strikes me from your post is that you see this as a problem with DIL and your son is barely mentioned. this is an issue with your son and your mother/son relationship, not dil. he's a grownup, you and he have a whole history together that will be playing into this and that maybe needs addressing. unless you raised someone with no free will and no backbone then you must see he is choosing not to be in contact with his mother and address that relationship rather than just blame it on his wife.

i do think this happens a lot - the real baggage in these relationships is the existing relationship and history between parent and child which doesn't get wiped clean when that child is an adult and starts a family of their own. in fact starting a family can really stir up our feelings and wounds from our own childhood.

sometimes it is easier to say oh it's because they married x and she/he poisoned her/him against us than it is to face the reality of your own relationship with your child past, present and future.

i can only imagine for example how hideous it must be to grin and smile and politely deal with a woman you believed abused and damaged your husband.

My MIL is lovely and I'm lucky to have her in my life. However, she is very polite and her life is very regimented sometimes I just wish she would be more frank and relaxed.

I'm from a more spontaneous, relaxed, easygoing family and I find it tricky.

DH is also very polite and I've had to say to him if you thank me for every meal I prepare and compliment all the time even when I look like a total dogs breakfast it becomes meaningless, so rather only do these things when you genuinely mean it.

She's a good granny too. When I was a child I always imagined I would love my MIL and was upset that although I love her our relationship is not quite what I expected.

I can honestly say I love my first boyfriend's mother and even now she is wonderful and if my parents weren't my parents the next best thing would be his parents.