That glass ceiling! Part 2

[var123]

Continuing the discussion about artificial limits placed on G&T children, and the resulting impact on their health and happiness (not to mention futures).

Do they really matter less because they have a perceived "advantage"?!

original thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gifted_and_talented/2507232-The-glass-ceiling-for-very-able-children?

If I understand you correctly, then isn't this just another example of the superficiality that I was asking about earlier? Basically everything is geared towards the exam but its like reading one of those last minute crammers than actually studying the material properly?

I think it might be part of it var.

The focus has definitely been on close reading of smaller sections.

Mind you - you can't accuse the maths dept of that with their determination to go over everything again and again and again and....

Eric, its so odd. There's no need for this. Even if they run out of class time, they've got a whole term's worth of homework free evenings that the could get the children to use reading the book, rather than doing it in class.

Could it be just too complicated to work out a way to lend the books? They have no problem asking the parents to fork out for other stuff - i paid for something today that's a lot more expensive, but less valuable than a copy of Macbeth

It might be resources-maybe books go astray if DC take them home?

Or DC don't turn up with them if taken home?

More likely, there will be a core of DC who won't read if books are sent home. Many parents are allergic to overseeing homework. And feel little Jonny should spend his after school hours chilling from his daily toil!

An easy solution is to sell them to the parents and buy them back once finished!

Honestly, if you knew what I've just had an email reminder to pay, and its not optional, then you'd think the world has gone crazy that a school would not consider a book worth demanding the money from parents but this thing today is.

An easy solution is to sell them to the parents and buy them back once finished!

This is a joke, surely? No state school can insist on parents paying anything and many parents just couldn't afford to pay for books (even if they were getting refunded later).

Yes the performance for gcse music isnt too high a standard, but only being able to drop 3 marks out of 60 over two pieces when one is a group performance and given the vagaries of who is accompanying you on a particular day, whether there are nerves, whether the stupid reed in the clarinet (or other instrument) behaves and whether the school can find a sensible time to record you. Its really easy to drop those marks.

I would argue that you don't need to be taught maths - if you have the sort of mind that gets it and access to books, you can get pretty far without having any lessons.

I'm looking forward to gcses being done in this house. Far too much rote learning and having to get the exact wording the exam board are looking for.

I went to state high school in US, we were lend textbooks from school. If we lose, we had to pay. If we damage, we had to pay. The condition of the textbook was quite good, after many years use.

In most countries state-educated DC have to supply and pay for their own textbooks and stationery.

Personally, I find it mind-boggling that secondary DC would read a book for English Literature on school premises. And not own a personal copy. Neither I nor our DC have ever known such a system. I am all for close textual analysis but not outside the context of the whole book. Seems mad.

I agree bobo. Not having the book means children can't do some of the reading at home so you can concentrate on some specific parts of the book. It doesn't encourage reading at home.

irvine we had the same system when I was a child. I was living in an area that was very deprived but everyone had books.

disquisitiones - I just paid £18 for something that I didn't want to buy and can't see the benefit of but I had no choice in. The money that was mine this morning is now in the school's bank account. So I think state schools do make parents spend money.

I'd rather parents were asked to spend their hard-earned cash on books than on uniform.

Var- at our school there is no way we would ask parents to pay £18 for something compulsory. A lot of them just couldn't.

DD and DS have had copies of every book that they have read in class - supplied in plastic covers, expected to be completed in their own time. There is a restriction on e.g. how many classes can do each set book, so that there aren't limitless books in circulation.

Affluent area. state comp, Ihaven't paid a thing.

The way the school crawled through the books and then stopped dead part way through, never to return was putting my Dc off the individual books.

They are all good books - ones that I would want them to read anyway, even if the school didn't put them on the curriculum. So, if I don't have them already, I buy them and encourage my DC to read them at home, at whatever pace they choose.

Generally it works to at least not turn them off the author, but it seems a shame to me that other children probably just get the slooow read, interspersed with lots of analysis and then stop dead never to finish the book for the rest of their lives. If the school approach is effective in encouraging a habit of reading then I'm prepared to be amazed.

What does it teach our children that their parents must buy them uniform but not books? That school is more concerned about external appearances than what goes into their heads? That school really only pays lip service to intellectual pursuits and is more concerned with mouling them?

teacherwith2kids - that sounds ideal. It just seems to me that books should be a priority. Other things matter, but if its a choice between a pshe event and enough books for the English dept, then its no contest IMO. The PSHE info will just have to be a lecture instead.

What was the £18 thing, var?

Bretrand - I understand what you are saying about some parents not being able to afford them, but I just looked up 2nd hand copies of one and they are available for £2.80 delivered.

I know that is still prohibitive for some, but surely many parents can afford this, and would pay it if told about it and encouraged?

A trip on a coach down the motorway to a church where all the (year 9) kids can get to know each other and "reflect". Bring your own packed lunch.

I've seen these sort of things before and I think "boring" might just about sum up how the kids - not just mine - respond to these days.

Our school are asking parents to spend £400 on buy an ipad. It's compulsory too (with the possibility to have one from the school if you are on low income, ie free school meals).

So, tbh, £5 for a book..... I'm sure the school could have a few spares too for families on low income instead of an ipad that is completely useless.

Having said that, I agree with Bobo. There is an issue about not paying for any school books etc but paying (sometimes quite a lot) of money for a uniform. I also suspect that our MC affluent parents have no issue with an ipad 'because you need to live with your time you know' but would be quite upset about buying a book 'because education is supposed to be free. What about parents on low income?'

So we go back to the issue of 'what is the priority?'

Yep we have those too.
'Focus days' where the children are send to xx to spend the day. If possible at the start of the year so they get to know each other. And so you will never feel like you can say NO to it either because of the timing etc...

When i say "church", don't think stained glass windows and amazing architecture. Think box shaped room with portacabin style metal windows, cheap nylon carpet squares and stackable chairs next to fold down trestle tables.

The entertainment will take the form of a prayer, followed by an inspiration speech, a short, badly acted or cartoon like film on the overhead projector and then everyone into groups to share their thoughts.

However the school can find the money to send the children to do different sport competition (football being one fo them or rather the main one of course), incl travelling 3 hours by coach to a different town.
And that is seen as important and necessary.