maths in schools

[var123]

I know this isn't a G&T thing specifically, but its come about because I've started working through a maths GCSE textbook with DS1 and I really don't fancy having to explain and justify that decision as I would have to on other parts of mumsnet.

So, I started teaching DS1 yesterday. The first thing we did was go through and mark what he already knows. He has learned some sophisticated stuff at school. However, he didn't know how to do long multiplication! He can do the grid method, but not the method that generations of children have learned.

Ditto long division.

So, the first thing I have to do with my highly able 13 year old is to teach him the stuff that I learned halfway through primary school

Actually, Noblegiraffe, that explains a lot, especially why there seemed to be no attempt to develop a love of maths.

I am surprised you think all maths teachers have maths degrees if you have one yourself! Most of the people I was at university with went into the city or academia; no money in teaching, and those in love with maths stayed at university.

Mathematicians being indoor types is one of the reasons we have pushed swimming for DD, Racundra. It's taken her 3 years of weekly lessons and other practise as a family for her to swim 50m.

By inclination she's a complete bookworm and would never come up for air given a choice.

TBH I don't remember what most people did with their degrees - it wasn't yesterday! I know a few went off to be programmers, a couple became actuaries and some got jobs as trainee accountants. The City didn't take many at that time, but that changed a few years later. I only remember one person going off to teacher training college straight from uni but I heard a couple of others took that route a few years later.

I remember the careers advisor telling me that you needed to have studied the subject for two years, and have a degree, to get into teacher training college. So, I just thought that this meant that teachers had degrees in their subjects because not many study something for two years and then do a degree in something else. PGCE is a post grad qualification - right?

Var, does your DC likes computing?
Khan Academy has lots of computing. Not just programming, but computer science which teaches Algorithms, cryptograph, and information theory. Also has "Pixar in a Box" which talks about maths behind the movies.Also, Recreational math, just for fun.

Maths contents are really good too, which include Arithmetic, Pre-algebra, Algebra basics, Algebra I, Basic geometry, Geometry, Algebra II, Trigonometry, Probability and statistics, Pre-calculus, Differential calculus, Integral calculus, Multivariable calculus, Differential equations, and Linear algebra.

Mathematicians being indoor types

::ahem:: Y8 DD is maths-whizzy and good at sports and outdoors-stuff, especially rock climbing where she's very good (visual spatial reasoning and working memory?).

She is an introvert at school though, so the her best conventional sports tend to be the more solitary kind e.g. running, swimming, as opposed to team-sports where she's not assertive enough to be more than middling. We also have music, but again that's solitary piano not orchestral strings etc.

Co-incidently we did our very first non-trivial at-home maths on Saturday with a few questions from an old UKMT mentoring scheme paper. There are lots and lots of those you can download for free here (click the JMS/IMS/SMS links): www.ukmt.org.uk/mentoring/

::kicks self:: coincidentally!

Well your careers adviser was wrong. Ideally you have a degree in Maths to do a PGCE. But a lot of trainees have a degree in something else with a lot of Maths, and may or may not have to do a conversion course as part of their PGCE.

But once someone is a qualified teacher, they can be asked to teach any subject. One of the best Maths teachers my older DC had was actually a Chemistry teacher, who taught a bit of Maths because he enjoyed it (and one class was GCSE). I also know a Chemistry teacher who was asked to teach French for a while (she was bi-lingual).

Mathematicians being indoor types Really

DS has found that the kayaking club at uni is full of engineers

Var- just wondering if you're intending to take it further at school?

Interesting the "must be indoorsy". My ds's talents lie in the Englishy/historyish direction- and people are often surprised to see him doing pretty well at sport too. Particularly rugby! They expect him to be indoors with his nose in a book all the time.

BertrandRussell - I am inclined to say no. I've bashed my head against the brick wall that is a teacher who doesn't want to teach my child before and it never ends well.

Yes, its true that the HT should be interested to find out what is actually happening, and that it would be public-spirited of me if I were to spend time informing him.

However, its never like you just write one letter and that's it. It would take a lot of effort to prove the HoD is lying. Meantime, he'd feel it was now getting serious (for him) and he'd be fighting back with everything he could throw at me.

And the end result? Some face saving fudged solution that I'd be relying on a now-hostile HoD to see through.

No thanks.

and then, on top of that, from the revelation that the teachers don't really have a deep knowledge of maths anyway... I'd have to ask what kind of solution could they come up with even if their hearts and minds were suddenly open?

PiqueABoo, site looks fantastic!
My DS is too young for it yet, but I'll keep that link for future.
Thank you.

Ok. But bear in mind next time you post about how crap state schools are that there is a perfectly sensible and obvious path that might put things right that you are refusing to take. That someone who knows how schools work has suggested to you. That I agree you shouldn't have to take, but sometimes we have to keep pushing if our child is an outlier.

"and then, on top of that, from the revelation that the teachers don't really have a deep knowledge of maths anyway... I'd have to ask what kind of solution could they come up with even if their hearts and minds were suddenly open?"

Do you mean by that that some maths teachers don't have a degree in maths?

Var, I know you are having hard time, but lot's of PP has given you great advice...
In my mind, you are one of lucky one, that you have degree in maths, same interest with your children.

I have a degree, but nothing to do with maths, so I'm completely lost in that department.

I really hope you can find some solution for your problem soon.

Both my sons are outliers. It doesn't make things easy. Maybe they aren't easy for anyone, but the grass IS always greener in the next field, isn't it?

State schools are not crap. Well, ok, some teachers are but its not a general rule! IMO the experience is a teacher by teacher one, not a school by school one, nor a sector by sector one.

Take this HoD, for example. He's probably a good teacher, and he probably does a good job with the dept overall according to the objectives he has been set. I bet they say something like get a high % of children to A* and the vast majority to C or better at GCSE. Keep the teachers motivated, take care of the teacher's professional development and record keep appropriately. If G&T gets mentioned, it will be a bland non-speciific statement with a low priority.

Nothing is ever perfect, but the SLT are mostly content, I am guessing.
No one wants to know that the HoD lies to parents so poorly that they know that he is lying.

If the school cared about its outliers, it would do something about them. It doesn't. Most children aren't outliers and league tables are based around getting 5 GCSEs, including English and Maths at C or better. As long as a decent percent are A/ A* (which they are), then who cares about children like mine?

The answer is I care. We'd like a school that specialised in children like ours, but its not what we've got, so DH and I will just have to make up the difference ourselves, as best we can. I believe we aren't the only ones who don't leave education completely up to the school.

Funnily enough, none of this ever shows up in Ofsted reports or in endless debates about grammar schools/ middle class parents piling into good schools or any of the other misconceptions and half-truths that abound.

irvine101 - thanks. Actually maths is Ds2's interest, not Ds1's. I know I am lucky to be able to offer him that help and encouragement, although I am not doing anything atm as he's happily settling into year 7 and hasn't asked for anything.

Ds1 is good at maths, but he's really interested in geography and history. Luckily DH can help him with those. I just help him with maths whenever the anxiety issues require him to see some definable progress. And I buy the books that both boys like to read.

Looked at dc school and the maths dept are all Bsc, whether maths or not. I know in the past one of their teachers was a phd . He was from russia and he was brilliant with the 6th form. He was only allowed to teach year 7 for a short time because he wasnt a qualified teacher. Ds seem to think all his teachers had maths degree, he used to chat to them a lot.

"
Nothing is ever perfect, but the SLT are mostly content, I am guessing.
No one wants to know that the HoD lies to parents so poorly that they know that he is lying.
"Nothing is ever perfect, but the SLT are mostly content, I am guessing.
No one wants to know that the HoD lies to parents so poorly that they know that he is lying."
But you don't know that because you won't bloody tell them!

Before you go complaining to the school that the maths teacher isn't planning and setting entirely different work for your DS, read this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2493519-To-wonder-why-so-many-teachers-want-to-quit?

Complaining may well tip another teacher over the edge.

I have no plans to complain, or even raise it again with the school in any way, Noblegiraffe. I never said I would, but I consistently said I would not throughout this thread and on every other thread ever since the day the HoD lied to me.

Bertrandrussell is showing displeasure with me for that decision, but hopefully, you'll be pleased, Noblegiraffe!

Obviously, I can't please everyone!

noblegiraffe & Bertrandrussell - do you two think you could fight it out between yourselves? I am beginning to feel a little caught in the middle!

Var you must be really frustrated. I honestly would set aside the school curriculum stuff and steer him towards UKMT. I'd plonk him on the Intermediate mentoring scheme - one of the old ones, so that you have the solutions at hand (if he is happy with the idea) and mentor him yourself. Then if they don't automatically enter the Intermediate Challenge, I'd start rattling cages about this soon so they get used to the idea of him, and others doing it.

It's interesting, challenging stuff.

If you don't fancy that, then another solution would be alcumus dd tried it, but it wasn't her thing, she prefers sitting down with a book, it might be your ds' though.